User talk:Kevin Myers

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———————————USER: KEVIN MYERS———————————

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Contents 1 Little Turtle 2 Trail of Tears revert 3 Crawford Expedition 4 Gelelemend 5 Wilderness Road 6 Simon Kenton's Militia Men 7 Western theater of the American Revolutionary War 8 Walking Purchase 9 Pennsylvania land purchases

[edit] Little Turtle

I'll take a new pic ASAP -- I'll have a whole day off later this week, and my Dad should be back in town with his fancy new digital camera. --Jpbrenna 20:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trail of Tears revert

Why did you revert my changes to the Trail of Tears article?

Because your changes made the article worse. You removed the most famous quotation associated with the Trail of Tears, a quote that anyone who has done much reading on the Trail of Tears should be familiar with. The quote is likely apochryphal, but because it is so famous, we must include it and tell folks it's probably bogus. The quote is cited by the footnote at the end of the paragraph, which applies to the paragraph as a whole. That's a limitation of having one footnote cover an entire paragraph, so your belief that the quote was uncited is understandable. --Kevin

Thanks for taking the time to explain. ~jon —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anderbubble (talk • contribs) 14:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Crawford Expedition

Thank you very much for your featured article Crawford Expedition. I translated it into German, because I'm interested in American history connected with the history of Native Americans. I wrote articles about the Lenni Lenape and the Gnadenhütten massacre and so I found the Crawford Expedition. Those specific details of the American Revolution are almost unknown in Germany, but I think, there are other people here interested in American history. --Nikater 16:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words, and thanks for the translation. I know many Germans have an interest in Native American history—Tecumseh is of course famous in Germany—so many should find your translation useful. And thanks for finding that really good color image of Crawford's execution—I'll be putting that into the article on Crawford and Simon Girty. —Kevin 00:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gelelemend

Hi Kevin, I learned you are the specialist for American Indians in Ohio territory during the American Revolution. I'm writing an article about Gelelemend or Killbuck for the German Wikipedia and my sources are different on two questions:

• Did he belong to the Turkey or Turtle clan?
• When he guided Colonel Brodhead to Coshocton in 1781, was it occupied by Lenapes or by Wyandots und Mingos?--Nikater 12:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I also have conflicting evidence on the first point. According to Richard White (The Middle Ground), "Killbuck was chief of the Turtle phratry" (p. 382), while C.A. Weslager (The Delaware Indians) writes that Killbuck represented the Turkey division (p. 298). According to my notes—I don't have the book at hand—Olmstead (Blackcoats among the Delaware) writes that Killbuck was from the Turtle clan (p. 11). So it looks like the best you can do is write that historians disagree on the point, unless you find something with more detail that resolves the dispute.

To the best of my knowledge, Coshocton was primarily a Delaware (Lenape) town when Killbuck guided Brodhead to it. Gregory Dowd (A Spirited Resistance, pp. 78-9) gives the following population breakdown for Coshocton in 1777:

400 Unami Delaware warriors

20 Munsee Delaware warriors

50 Shawnee (mostly Mekoche) warriors,

for a total of 470 men of fighting age, or about 2,000 people. The population was undoubtedly smaller in 1781 in the wake of Captain Pipe's departure, but all sources still seem to refer to it as a Delaware town. —Kevin 00:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the detailed informations. I wonder why Gelelemend guided the Americans against his own Delaware people to destroy them.

May I ask you another question? Where did the term Captain for Delaware leader come from?--Nikater 12:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Gelelemend's actions are difficult to understand. Clearly, he was bitter about the struggles with the Delaware Council which left him out of power. He became a quisling, perhaps.

I'm not sure how the term "Captain" originated. (Captain Jacobs, killed in the Kittanning Expedition in 1756, is the earliest Captain I can think of off the top of my head.) The title was applied to certain Shawnee leaders too--Captain Johnny (Kekewepelethy) and Captain Snake (Patasua) were well known. Among the Delawares, it seems to indicate a chief who was the war leader (rather than a civil leader) of a clan, but not an overall leader of the tribe. If so, the Europeans probably did not use the term consistently. —Kevin 16:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, that sounds plausible and thank you for your kind informations.--Nikater 21:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wilderness Road

Hi Kevin, here I'm again asking a question ;-). Just I translated the article Wilderness Road, but there is no map showing the route. So I would like to make one. Where can I find a useful historic (topographic) map without cities, highways and streets from that area? Can you help me? --Nikater 10:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Finding good maps without all the modern stuff on them is hard. Especially topographic maps. I'm afraid I don't know of any maps that would do the trick. I did a search not too long ago when I thought about making a Wilderness Road map myself.

A really good mapmaker on Wikipedia who might be able to help is User:Kmusser. --Kevin

Ok, I think I will try to make my own map, but it is alot of work. Thank you. --Nikater 16:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is the new map of the Wilderness Road etc. If ok I would like to make an English version. Please give me your comments.--Nikater 17:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that looks amazing! Great work. The only thing I would change is the wording of "Transylvania Territory". In U.S. history, the word "Territory" is usually reserved for a specific type of pre-state region. A better label would be "Transylvania Purchase". —Kevin 01:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your praise. I changed "Territory" in "Purchase" and translated some German words for the English version, so ok?--Nikater 12:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

A couple of comments:

• The boundaries of the Transylvania Purchase need adjusted slightly. According to my sources, it should be roughly a triangle with the borders being the Kentucky River and the Ohio River making the top ^ of the triangle, and the Cumberland River making the bottom border. (Transylvania dipped into modern Tennesse.)
• It would be useful to put Sycamore Shoals or Fort Watauga on the map, since that's where the treaty was conducted for the Transylvania Purchase.
• I'm not sure about your distinction between "historical places" and "modern cities". If the map is intended to represent 1785, the places you've marked as "modern cities" already existed, since Nashville, Louisville, and Lexington were founded in 1779.

Keep up the good work! —Kevin 16:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is a new attempt. Thank you for your feedback. --Nikater 17:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks great -- you've made one of the best history maps for the U.S. Midwest. On the legend for the English version, I would change "Access roads" to "Access trails", and "Connecting road" to "Connecting trail", because "trail" better describes these early routes.

Questions: what mapping program do you use? And, when using the demis map as a base, how do you get the demis map into your program? I've played with it but cannot figure out how to capture an image from the demis site. Thanks! —Kevin 18:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I use Photoshop for editing the basic maps. I think Demis blocks the maps against copying and so I print the picture on photo paper and then put it into my scanner. Adobe-Photoshop is an excellent program for editing, I used it on my job (lithographer). --Nikater 22:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I'd like to add my "great map, nice job!" comment here. That is an excellent map. That page needed a map, and I've been watching it for a while, wondering how a map might be done. So I'm glad to see yours! I noticed one possible mistake though. The river labeled Santee River is actually the Yadkin River, I think. I'm almost positive about it, but on the chance I'm wrong and it is the Santee River, then it should probably be labeled Catawba River, which is the name used for it in North Carolina. Nonetheless, nicely done! Much appreciated! Pfly 05:42, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, it seems I should have made this comment on Nikater's page, since he seems to be the one who made the map. I saw your name as the one to added it to the article.. it looks like you at least helped make it? I'll copy my comment over to Nikater's page too. Pfly 05:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Simon Kenton's Militia Men

Simon Kenton, certainly a real life hero. I'm looking for the names of the men who fought with Simon Kenton at the Battle of Thames. I believe one of them was my 5th great grandfather Robert Craig, born 1781. Family tradition and his War of 1812 papers from the National Archives indicate Robert was there under the Kentucky Militia commander Isaac Shelby. After the war, Robert came through Ohio and visited Simon at his home place. Simon told him his father William Craig once repaired his rifle during the American Revolutionary War. Any suggestions in revealing the names of those militia soldiers with Simon Kenton? Thanks, Deane Craig in Glitter Gulch (Las Vegas), NV24.234.184.253 23:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

How lucky you are to have an ancestor who served with Kenton!

You need to find muster rolls or rosters for Kentucky militia, but I'm not sure where they are. Ohio has these online here, but it doesn't look like Kentucky does (yet). You probably have the specific unit Robert Craig was in from his National Archives records (perhaps the name of the captain or colonel), so that will help narrow the search once you find the archives. Probably the easiest thing to do, if you know what county he was from, is to contact the historical society of that county by email. Lots of those little historical societies have transcripts of musters rolls and the like.

A long shot might be to check the Draper Manuscript Collection, if you're into serious research. Basic info here, in case you're unfamiliar with the collection. Many libraries have the collection on microfilm (list here). There might be a list of names of men who served with Kenton somewhere in the many Kenton volumes of the archives. It's even remotely possible that Lyman Draper corresponded with or interviewed Robert Craig, which would be quite a find for you and your family.

Good luck! —Kevin 14:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Western theater of the American Revolutionary War

It appears that you have been a principal contributor to this article. You may want to look at a recent edit to see if it is salvageable-- I do not have the background to determine that. Thanks. Kablammo 17:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like an anonymous editor is trying to stir up controversy in several articles. Too POV to be worth saving. Revert at will. —Kevin 02:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Walking Purchase

Hi Kevin. I would like to make another map for the article of Walking Purchase. I found this map [1]. Is the boundary line there correct and does the horizontal line mark the walking route? --Nikater 12:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that boundary looks correct. A somewhat easier map to read is here. This map includes Nutimus's town, an important feature, since the fraudulent deed took away the chief's town.

However, the straight horizontal line is not the walking route. The walking route ended at the left end of that line, but it followed that darker, slanted line which is sort of parallel with the Delaware River, beginning at the place marked "Wright's Town". On a modern map, the walking route goes from Wrightstown to Jim Thorpe, if our article is correct. —Kevin 14:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is the map of the Walking Purchase. Please give your comments.--Nikater 15:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Good work, another fine map. The "West" of the West Virginia label is in Maryland, so you might want to reposition that (I know it's hard to position because of the funny border), but otherwise it looks great. —Kevin 21:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I have changed the position of West Virginia. Now you can see the English version of the map, is it so ok? --Nikater 21:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks good! In the legend, the phrase "walking course" might be clearer in English as "route of walk". You also might consider adding an additional scale in miles for your maps in English, since miles are used much more than kilometers in the U.S. —Kevin 13:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I added a scale in miles in both maps, Wilderness Road and Walking Purchase, ok? Please tell me more articles of American history without maps.--Nikater 19:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks good.

There are probably a lot of articles that need maps in your areas of interest.

You could take your Walking Purchase map and cover all of the land purchases from Native Americans in Pennsylvania, like here. This could be used in articles like History of Pennsylvania, the Albany Congress, and the Treaty of Fort Stanwix.

A map of the proposed colonies of Vandalia and Indiana, as shown on this page, could go in the Ohio Company article and on other pages.

If you have some good reference books, a map of Lenape migrations over the centuries, from New Jersey to Oklahoma, would be nice. A map of Shawnee migrations through history is also needed. These maps might not be on the Internet. You may not be able to do them without the books.

A better map is needed for the Saratoga campaign, showing both Burgoyne's and St. Leger's advance, and the site of the battles.

A better map of the Ohio Country is needed. Would be nice to show the location of Native American towns about 1750, just before the beginning of the French and Indian War, such as Pickawillany, Logstown, Lower Shawnee Town, and Eskippathiki.

A map showing the extended boundaries of Quebec following the Quebec Act of 1774 is needed.

A map showing the Lenape capital of Coshocton, with the nearby Moravian villages (such as Gnadenhutten), and the other Delaware villages such as White Eyes's town, is needed.

It would be nice to have maps on important places in the lives of individuals. So, with Daniel Boone for example, it would be useful to have a map showing his birthplace, place of death, Cumberland Gap, Boonesborough, Old Chillicothe, Battle of Blue Licks, Boone Station, etc. Similar maps could be made for guys like Joseph Brant, Tecumseh, Blue Jacket, George Rogers Clark, Simon Kenton, etc.

So those are a few ideas for maps. —Kevin 15:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the ideas. I will do my best. I have a good reference book: Handbook of North American Indians Vol. 15 (Northeast). I think I can find there the migrations of Lenape and Shawnee tribes. --Nikater 16:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Good, that's exactly the book I had in mind. —Kevin 19:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pennsylvania land purchases

Today I uploaded the next map. Please give your comments.--Nikater 12:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I had a little trouble distinguishing the boundary between the 1768 and the 1784 purchase -- the green/orange shading could be more of a contrast. Looks very good otherwise.

I believe the Albany Purchase was originally bigger but was reduced in the 1758 Treaty of Easton, so we might need a special map in the articles about the Treaty of Easton and the Albany Congress. I can't find any maps right now that show those boundaries, however. Maybe we'll find one at some point. —Kevin 13:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Green/orange with more contrast, ok.? --Nikater 18:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks great! —Kevin 21:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)