User talk:AlexandreJ
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[edit] Image Tagging Image:ProminentLinkjacket.JPG
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Thanks for uploading Image:ProminentLinkjacket.JPG. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.
If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, consider reading fair use, and then use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.
If you have uploaded other media, consider checking that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 15:56, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I will put the article Srila_Prabhupada:_The_Prominent_Link on article for deletion
Please read the policies and guidelines for creating a new article, otherwise you may be creating another article that may be deleted. Andries 11:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I do not mean to say that all books by or about Prabhupada have no place in Wikipedia. For example, I voted to keep the Bhagavad Gita As It Is which is a notable book. Andries 11:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I can see that the tone of the article is not an adverisement, but still if a book or any other subject warrants an article then the subject should be notable in some ways. The difference between the books the Bhagavad Gita as it is and the The Prominent link is obvious in that respect. Andries 12:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
To answer your question. The question what subject merits its own article is not a black and white question, as you will understand. Often a Wikipedia:google test is used to help making a decision. In the case of the book The Prominent link this will only yield 933 results, which I personally consider too little. Andries 12:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
In the case of books, Amazon ranking is also a good way to assess inclusion and exclusion. Andries 12:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Andries, thank you for the further clarification, and the information about Amazon ranking. For the Wikipedia Google test, is there an approximate minimum number of yielded results that would, in your view, be sufficient in this case to indicate possible notability?--AlexandreJ 12:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Based on my experience and observation of the followers Srila Prabhupada, over the past 10 years, issues and controversies related to initiation and succession seem to be one of the major sources of conflict. The book Srila Prabhupada: The Prominent Link seems to me to provide a different way of looking at a number of these issues. The book includes contributions from persons who are, or were at one time, in positions of prominence in the ISKCON organization. In my ten years of reading, it is the first time that I have seen a major statement on initiation/succession in the tradition of Srila Prabhupada presented as exploratory rather than as supposedly conclusive. I believe that being aware of the additional perspective that the book presents will allow readers to draw a more informed and complete understanding of the issues.--AlexandreJ 16:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Dear Andries, the book Srila Prabhupada: The Prominent Link (PL) has created substantial waves. The Governing Body Commission of ISKCON, directly and through it's Sastric Advisory Council (SAC), has devoted much energy to addressing it, including a major paper dealing with the issues raised in PL. The SAC's paper can be downloaded here:
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- There is an active, dynamic PL conference sparking much thought on issues of succession in Srila Prabhupada's movement. Thousands of persons associated with the ISKCON organization, and with other parts of Srila Prabhupada's movement, are affected by the ideas in PL.
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- I'm not sure who first suggested that the PL Wikipedia page be deleted. I'm not sure if it was you, or if it was someone else, perhaps a member of the ISKCON organization. I am open to the possibility that whoever first suggested that it be deleted was not doing it for any political reasons. Based on ten yeas of contact with the ISKCON organization, and based on my experience of how the leadership of the ISKCON organization has responded to the book, I am also open to the possibility that some devotees who post on Wikipedia might wish to silence the ideas presented in the PL book.--AlexandreJ 05:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Below is a list of articles related to the book Srila Prabhupada: The Prominent Link, taken from a number of Vaisnava websites:
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- The following excerpt, available at a cached link, gives one an example of how some leaders within the ISKCON organization have responded to the PL book, seemingly misrepresenting it, and painting the book as something hostile and/or subversive:
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- "The covert ritvik propaganda presented in the book 'Srila Prabhupada: The Prominent Link' by Dhira Govinda dasa. Much energy is required by this ministry to combat the erroneous philosophy being presented by a person highly placed within ISKCON leadership. This is further compounded by the fact that Dhira Govinda widely conducts seminars which supposedly teach psychological and spiritual well-being but ultimately result in anti-ISKCON mentality among the students. One can observe the mood of Bhaktin Miriam as she publicly condemns the GBC for disapproving of The Prominent Link. And she is in charge of organizing Dhira Govinda's seminars in New York."
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- --AlexandreJ 05:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Some excerpts from a section of the PL book, entitled 'Support for PL and Apprehension to Express It', written by Dhira Govinda dasa:
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- "Typical comments that I’ve received, at places like ISKCON leadership meetings and Sunday Feast programs, from devotees serving in all capacities within Srila Prabhupada’s movement, including top-level leaders in ISKCON, include statements, delivered in hushed tones, such as 'I really liked your paper, The Prominent Link. You wrote just what I’ve been thinking for many years.' Concurring with the statements of Ambarisa Prabhu and Balavanta Prabhu in the Foreword and Preface, many Vaisnavas emphasize the straightforward common sense of the concepts in PL."
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- "Many devotees have expressed disappointment and sadness that these principles have been neglected and overlooked by the leadership of ISKCON.
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- "Tones tend to be hushed in such conversations due to an apprehension that expression of such views is discouraged in the organization, and that such expressions would incur the disfavor of members and leaders of the institution. There is a perceived culture of fear and repression in the ISKCON organization, masked by a pretense of openness to frank discussion of issues.
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- "Ostensibly ISKCON wants innovative, thoughtful members who boldly apply their intelligence, within the framework of guru, sastra and sadhu, for gaining a deeper understanding of devotional principles. In practice, as experienced by many, if one does not conform to the organizational line on issues such as those addressed in PL, then the institutional leadership, without rational discussion or genuine attempt at understanding, often condemns the dissenter and discourages members of the organization to honestly look at issues from unorthodox perspectives. The implied message is 'We have already thoroughly considered these issues. So you needn’t apply your intelligence here, because we’ve thought it through for you.' Such a stance is unlikely to attract and retain independently thoughtful members. There is in the organization a veneer of broad-mindedness, accompanied by an implicit assertion that views such as those espoused in Srila Prabhupada: The Prominent Link are not to be found amongst persons in good-standing in the organization. If someone in the organization advocates such convictions, they are then branded and condemned, and pressured to leave the institution. Once they have left, it is again safe for the leadership to declare to the members that no one in good-standing would hold such views as expressed in essays such as The Prominent Link, and anyone who thinks that way is deviant, and so you’d do better to not even consider thinking in that way.
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- "Authoritarian dynamics, wherein the leadership is fearful of permitting subordinates to analyze and discern for themselves, may be somewhat prevalent in today’s religious institutions, but they are not conducive for Vaisnava society or relationships. Such reluctance to allow members to fully utilize their cognitive faculties may stem to a substantial degree from a benevolent desire to protect. The ISKCON organization may also benefit, however, from introspectively looking at other motivations for this authoritarianism, such as fear that members, upon analysis of facts from an alternative perspective, may realize that they are being, in some ways, misled.
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- "We understand that this imperious leadership style is not extant throughout the organization, but it is manifest with sufficient regularity and pervasiveness that many, perhaps most, of Srila Prabhupada’s followers, both inside and outside the institution, feel alienated and stifled. Thus, for the purpose of attracting and maintaining satisfied, intelligent members, it is, we believe, imperative for ISKCON leadership, especially at the top levels, to seriously assess its mode of addressing issues and concerns. As Balavanta writes in the Preface to PL, spiritual matters in Srila Prabhupäda’s society must be resolved through 'open and frank discussion amongst mature devotees whose voices are not suppressed.'
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- "Srila Prabhupada: The Prominent Link provides an opportunity for the movement to integrate and incorporate a new, attractive, and sastrically sound paradigm for carrying Srila Prabhupada’s legacy deep into the future. It is the opinion of many, including this author, that ISKCON needs to reexamine its paradigms, with fearless detachment, on issues including the guru issue, to avoid remaining a relatively insignificant cult, and to become a substantial player in the institutions of society at large. We understand that there are many fears, ranging from loss of important personal relationships to loss of legal battles, associated with implementation of the PL model. We contend with confidence that Srila Prabhupada’s movement possesses the strength to handle the challenges that will arise with the PL paradigm, and that the movement will undoubtedly be strengthened by accommodating and encouraging the PL model."--AlexandreJ 05:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
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