Talk:AVE
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"7000 km of high-speed rail operational by the end of the decade" that really a lot since it's a mountagnous country so with tunnels and bridges. Marc Venot 00:05, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] References/Citations
It would be nice to get some citations/more information on:
- more details as to the reason for the choice of Seville for the inaugural line: just because of Expo '92, or were there other reasons;
- the allegations of favouritism levelled at Felipe González over the choice of Seville;
- more information on the punctuality guarantee: in particular, how unique is this? I know from personal experience that AVE punctuality far exceeds at least the TGV and the Italian Eurostar, and think it likely betters Thalys, ICE and Eurostar, but more details would be nice. [This undated article] has some figures, and is where the 0.16% came from, but it would be nice to have a period for this;
- more on the likely reduction in domestic air travel and the extent to which this is a motivating factor in expansion (short-haul air travel is quite environmentally unfriendly and for this reason there is an EU initiative to encourage train use instead of taking domestic flights - in Spain you can get a discount on your AVE ticket if you can show an international flight ticket in/out dated within 72 hours of your train journey.)
- more on the issues concerning the connection to the TGV network. The two points mentioned are at opposite ends of the of the border; are they both being considered, or just one, and what are the political implications for the choice? Trains to Paris tend to go through Irun AFAIK, although La Jonquera is nearer to Barcelona (and there will now be a high speed link from Madrid to there.)
-- Blorg 08:08, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
According to the Ministerio de Fomento (Spanish Public Works Ministry), the punctuality in the AVE Madrid-Seville line has remained above 99% since 1992, reaching 99,58% in 2005 (so far the best year for the line). This means that 99,58% of the trains arrive on time or with a delay of no more than 5 minutes.
[edit] Political rant
Maybe the lengthy political rant at the introduction of the article should be integrated (and NPOVed a little) with the history section. I think that the introduction should be mostly about technical features of the train. --xDCDx 09:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello from Spain. I think the political parts need to stay. In Spain, when you talk AVE, you talk politics. Choosing Madrid-Seville over Madrid-Barcelona was a political decission. Apart from that, Siemens' bribes (alledgely) were important during construction. The role of terrorism is important when you talk AVE. The Army has protected AVE lines recently. The role of PP's minister for construction, Alvarez-Cascos is very controversial. The article reflects all this really well. I know that from a non-Spanish point of view all those politics might seem strange.
Honestly the use of would in this article seemed to violate the no point of view.. that is why I got rid of that statment... no use talking aboud would have or should have...WngLdr34 05:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)WngLdr34
But those comparations between links Seville-Madrid and Barcelone-Madrid profitabilities were widely debated topics in Spain, as Siemens' bribes (not so alleged: there was some trials and guilty verdicts) so they shouldn't be eliminated. That there was a heavy public debate is a fact, that deserves a mention; higher profitability in a link Madrid-Barcelona is also a fact, easy to demonstrate if you make comparisons between air traffic Seville-Madrid and Barcelone-Madrid before AVE line was completed. All these statements may be parcial, but his existence is an important cuestion that must be mentioned. Ignacio Egea5 September 2006
[edit] Madrid - Barcelona - Paris
At the moment, there is a direct train service from Madrid to Barcelona which uses the high speed line from Madrid to its current temporary terminus at Lleida, the train continues on existing track to Barcelona. The train uses gauge changing Talgo stock with RENFE's 'Altaria' brand name. These trains can switch from the high speed standard gauge to spanish broad gauge at Lleida. Currently, there are six daily Altaria trains between Madrid to Barcelona taking 5 hours.
From next year, as the Wikepida article suggests, it's quite likely the high speed line will be extended to a new temporary terminus just east of Tarragona. The guage changing Altaria trains will then run on the high speed line all the way from Madrid via Llieda to just beyond Tarragona, and then switch to the existing line for the remaining 50km or so Barcelona. The high speed line will not serve Tarragona, but instead there will be a park and ride station north of city and also within proximity of Reus. This will reduce the journey time from Madrid to Barcelona by possible 30 mins to 4.5 hrs.
Once the standard guage line is complete all the way from Madrid to Barcelona, the purpose built high speed trains can the link the two cities. This will probably be in 2008.
Meanwhile, a high speed line linking Perpignan in France with Figueras in Spain is currently under construction and should be opened in 2009. In turn, there is a high speed line being developed between Figueras and Barcelona. If all these plans come to fruition, by 2009 there will be continous standard guage mostly high speed line from Paris all the way to Madrid opening up all sorts of possibilities for various TGV and AVE services between the two. With a journey time between the French and Spanish capitals of around eight hours, it's unlikely there will a regular through high speed service between the two. However, there may be variations on services connecting closer pairs of cities, for instance Barcelona to Paris in 5 hrs and Barcelona to Merseilles in under 3 hours.
=Since last week (18-12-2006) the line Lleida-Tarragona is operational.
[edit] Barcelona - Alicante
A Spanish Railway map I picked up (http://www.alleuroperail.com/eurorailway-maps/spain-portugal-railway-map.htm) seems to show a high-speed Barcelona-Tarragona-Castellon-Valencia-Alicante line. Is this not an AVE line? The map doesn't show the partially completed Madrid-Barcelona or the Madrid-Malaga lines referenced in the map, though. - Binand
- As far as I know, that is a broad gauge line upgraded for 200 km/h. There are some leftover TGV/AVE units that serve this line that are marketed as Euromed. --Qualle (talk) 16:04, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
You are totally right, it is not an AVE, but un upgraded broad line, called the Euromed, because it links all the important Mediterranean cities in Spain located in Catalonia and Valencia.
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- That map (the colouring of the lines on which has more to do with Eurail pass validity than anything else) is, in any case, not very up-to-date (it includes at least two closed lines). Incidentally, AVE and Euromed refer to trains, not lines. The new, purpose-built high-speed lines (Madrid - Sevilla/Lleida etc.) are called líneas de Alta Velocidad (AV); conventional lines upgraded, wholly or in part, to allow faster running are referred to as Velocidad Alta (VA). The distinction is similar to that between Neubaustrecken and Ausbaustrecken in Germany, though in Spain there is also a difference of gauge. AVE trains run (naturally) on Alta Velocidad lines; Euromed trains on Velocidad Alta routes. -- Picapica 11:01, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lines
>> Currently, five lines make up the AVE system:
>> AVE Larga Distancia (long distance) Madrid-Sevilla (Madrid, Ciudad Real, Puertollano, Córdoba, Sevilla) AVE Larga Distancia Madrid-Zaragoza-Lleida (Madrid, Guadalajara, Calatayud, Zaragoza, Lleida) AVE Lanzadera (shuttle) Madrid-Puertollano (Madrid, Ciudad Real, Puertollano) Talgo 200 Madrid-Málaga (Madrid, Ciudad Real, Puertollano, Córdoba, Málaga AV Media Distancia (Mid distance) Madrid - Toledo. <<
To me, the above is incorrect in several respects.
- There are currently two high-speed lines:
- Madrid - Sevilla
- Madrid - Lleida
- The standard-gauge network currently consists of the above two lines, plus a branch from each:
- (Madrid -) Alameda de la Sagra - Toledo
- Zaragoza - Huesca
- By my count, services operated over that network are of six types, operating over twelve routes:
- AVE
- Madrid - Sevilla
- Madrid - Huesca
- Madrid - Lleida
- AV media distancia
- Madrid - Toledo
- AVE lanzadera
- Madrid - Puertollano
- Córdoba - Sevilla
- Talgo 200
- Madrid - Córdoba (continuing, after change of gauge, to Málaga)
- Altaria
- Madrid - Sevilla (continuing, after change of gauge, to Cadiz / Huelva)
- Madrid - Plasencia de Jalón gauge-changer (continuing to Logroño / Pamplona)
- Madrid - Lleida (continuing, after change of gauge, to Barcelona)
- TRD
- Calatayud - Zaragoza
- Zaragoza - Huesca (some continuing, after change of gauge, to Jaca)
- AVE
Would anyone like to confirm / correct this information before I attempt to incorporate it in the article? -- Picapica 11:36, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
There is also a line under construction from Madrid heading north west via Segovia which is not mentioned or shown in red on the map.
[edit] Train failures ?
There's written: >However, it has to be said that both Siemens and Talgo/Bombardier train sets have consistently failed to meet scheduled speed >targets. El Periódico newspaper carried an article in October 2005 reporting that the Talgo/Bombardier train set (nicknamed "El >Pato" or "The Duck" because of the locomotive's bill-like snout) would not be tested at 250 km in the near future.
The Bombardier Train works perfectly up to speeds of 300 km/h. At higher speeds there are troubles with ballast stones hitting the underframe. (The Spanisch AVE does not have a truck substructure without ballast like it is recomended for speeds above 300 km/h)
The Siemens train is not yet delivered. It is years late since the German compnay seems to have trouble to produce the train in Spain and delivers now all trains from their Krefeld factory.
The reasons for the trains not going faster on the AVE line is because they have stil to relay on the old Spanish standard train protection ASFA, since the new ETCS level 1 quipment is not working, neither the fixinstallation nor the onboard installation.
[edit] Fastest long distance train?
I find this frangment of Future developpement section: "When completed, the Madrid-Barcelona line should be the world's fastest long-distance train in commercial operation, with trains billed to reach a top speed of 350 km/h and covering the 600 km between the two cities in just 2.5 hours." quite untrue.
TGV trains already (and this won't rather change) link Paris to Marseilles in 3 hours, which gives both faster journey and longer distance:
- Average speed:
- about 250 km/h (750 km in 3 hours) for Paris - Marseilles
- about 240 km/h (600 km in 2 hours 30) for Madrid - Barcelona
- Distance
- about 750 km for Paris - Marseilles, over 700 km on high-speed tracks
- about 600 km for Madrid - Barcelona
--Madcap pl 08:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
In the article it says literally "one of the world's fastest", not "the world fastest". And given the current delays in the paris marseilles line (which I use frecuently) I would never call this line the fastest. Maybe theoretically it is the fastest, but in the real life...
[edit] Basque Y
I think is not very accurate to define the Basque "Y" as a linkage of the "three" Basques provices. It will link three basques provinces (the ones the "Basque Country" administrative autonomy in Spain) but leaving apart those basque provinces in the sud ouest of France and the Navarra autonomy which has a strong basque heritage and is traditionally considered origin of the Basque identity.
Sure, but Navarra, for most people living in Navarra, is a separate and proud identity that has nothing to do with the basque country (see the results of all the democratic elections that have taken place there). And in France, there is not such a thing as basque "provinces".
As of today, i'm afraid to state that there are 3 basque provinces. The rest have cultural resemblances but they are not administratively
