Talk:Battle of Cape St. Vincent (1780)

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"coppered ships": presumably copper-bottomed?? Presumably not, "full of policemen", but will somebody please elucidate or define? orthogonal 18:44, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Copper plates all over below the waterline, protects against ship worms and keeps speed up by preventing weed growth. One of these days I hope to get around to writing wooden ship construction that explains all this. Stan 23:00, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I've changed "coppered" to "copper-bottomed"; I hope this meets with your aproval. orthogonal 01:29, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Either way is fine. Stan 04:26, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

the usual term is "coppered".

[edit] Order of battle?

The article Juan de Lángara claims the Spanish had "11, mostly smaller ships-of-the-line" and the British "21 battleships and 11 frigates". (Other accounts give other numbers.) What were these ships?

Spanish: Santo Domingo (exploded), Fénix, 80 (flagship, captured, renamed Gibraltar), Monarca, 70 (captured), San Julian (captured, but sank two days later), Princesa, 74 (captured), Diligente, 68 (captured), Guispuscoano, 64 (captured, renamed Prince William), ...?

British: Sandwich, 98 (flagship), Invincible, 74, Defence, 74, Bedford, Resolution, 74, Edgar, 74, Bienfaisant, 64, Prince George, 98, Monarch, 74, ...?

Sources: [1] Gdr 18:46, 2004 Dec 23 (UTC)

Prince George, as well? [2] Shimgray 17:34, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Fénix (the Spanish flagship) and Monarca are listed as captured [3] here. [4] mentions Santo Domingo as blowing up, and also mentions the Prince William - it isn't clear if this was part of the fleet or not, though. [5] suggests the Monarch may have been present, but is unclear.

Monarch confirmed by [6]. [7] is a useful source for launch dates and number of guns. Gdr 18:46, 2004 Dec 23 (UTC)

Must have been confusing, with the Monarch and the Monarca kicking around after the battle... It looks like the Prince William, on further reading, was sent back as a prize, so not her. As the fleet was that being sent to the West Indies (about which plenty is written), perhaps it would be useful to see what ships were present in that squadron a few months later? Shimgray 19:19, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Not an uncommon experience... at Trafalgar there were three Neptunes... Gdr 21:40, 2004 Dec 23 (UTC)

The San Julian is mentioned here, which adds another ship to the Spanish list. Shimgray 23:15, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC) And [8] suggests Montagu may have been present? It's unclear and an assumption, though. And I think at this point I've dredged out everything I can without a real reference... Shimgray 23:54, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[9] suggests several ships. Colledge, Ships of the Royal Navy confirms Monarca, Diligente, Fénix and gives Guispuscoano as the original name of Prince William. Gdr 23:30, 2005 Jan 5 (UTC) check the Battleships throughout history page ->spanish

I thought I would clarify things by adding a full list to the page. The only uncertainty is that British accounts mostly say that two of the captured ships, San Julian and San Eugenio, were lost, but Spanish records say that they continued in service -- implying that they were recaptured. JimmyTheOne Oct05