Talk:Bitola inscription

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THE TEXT 1. This is the text translated in Bulgarian from the fake stone in Voden: 1. V samodurjavnia grad Voden Az Samuil, veren v Hrista 2. Car na Bulgarite i Romeite, ot boga izpraten samodurjec 3. na vsichki strani ot Rashka do Makedonia, Tesalia 4. i Gurcia , vnuk na staria Shishman, koito beshe Han na 5. jitelite na Turnovo, postroih tozi molitven dom, za da sushtestvuva v vechnostta. Osnovite biaha polojeni v epohata na Ieremia, koito beshe pruv hristianin ot Melnik. 6. Postroen be (tozi hram) za grehovete i spasenieto na bulgarite 7. ot prokletia Satana, koito proizhojda ot Konstantinopol. 8. Tozi hram be zavurshen prez 14-tata godina ot caruvaneto mi s pomoshtta na sveshtennika Gavril, koito e duhoven pastirna jitelite na Muglen. 9. Napisano prez godina 6497 ot suzdavaneto na sveta (989 g.)5-ti Indiktion.

Rough translation into English: In the city of Voden, I Samuil, faithul to Christ, Emperor of the Bulgars and Romans, Godsent emperor of all lands from Raska to Macedonia, Thessaly and Greece, nephew of the old Shishman who was Khan of the inhabitants of Trnovo, built this prayer home, to exist forever. The foundation were laid in the epoch of Jeremiah, who was the first Christian in Melnik. This tample was built for the sins and saving of the Bulgars from damned Satan, who comes from Constantinople. This tample was finished during the 14th year of my rule with the help of monk Gavril, who is the spiritial shepherd of the inhabitants of Meglen. Written during year 6497 from the foundation of the world (989 A.D), 5th Indiction.

2. This is the text translated in Bulgarian from the stone in Bitola: "Prez godina 6523 (1015-1016) ot sutvorenieto na sveta obnovi se tazi krepost, zidana i pravena ot Ioan, samodurjec bulgarski, s pomoshtta i s molitvite na presvetata vladichica nasha Bogorodica i chrez zastupnichestvoto na dvanadesette i na vurhovnite apostoli. Tazi krepost be napravena za ubejishte i za spasenie i za jivota na bulgarite. Zapochnata beshe krepostta Bitolia prez mesec oktomvri v 20-i den, a se zavurshi v mesec... kraia. Tozi samodurjec beshe bulgarin po rod, vnuk na Nikola i na Ripsimia blagovernite, sin na Aaron, koito e brat na Samuil, caria samodurjaven, i koiito dvamata razbiha v Shtipon (Ihtiman) gruckata voiska na car Vasilii, kudeto be vzeto zlato... , a tozi v.. . car razbit bide ot car Vasilii v godina 6522 (1014) ot sutvorenieto na sveta v Kliuch i pochina v kraia na liatoto."

Rough translation into English: During the year 6523 (1015-1016) from the beggining of the world this fortress is being renewed, built and made by Ioan, Bulgarian autocrator, with the help and prayers of our Virgin Mary and through the representation of the twelve and supreme apostles. This fortress was made as haven and deliverance of the lives of the Bulgarians. The fortress Bitolia was started during the month of October 20th and was completed in the month of... ending. This autocrator was Bulgarian by birth, nephew of Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who is brother to Samuil, the tsar autocrator, with whom they smashed in Shtipon (Ihtiman) the Greek army of tsar Vasili, where they took gold..., and this tsar was destroyed by tsar Vasili in the year of 6522 (1014) from the beginning of the world in Kliuch and died at the end of the summer

3. The Story During September 1997 a Greek national with "Bulgarian identity" from Voden named Stoidis appeared in Sofia at the National Historical Museum and declared to the Director Bozidar Dimitrov that he has in his possession a stone inscription found in Voden (Edessa) during the reconstruction of a local church. The Director declared the inscription a fake made by Bulgarian nationalists in the 19th Century. Apparently the whole story was published in the Bulgarian daily Kontinent on "02.10.1997."

The "Bitola inscription" was discovered during the demolition of a mosque in Bitola during the 1950's and so far nobody doubted its veracity. Considering the Voden case the Bitola stone has to be viewed in new light. Chances that it was written by the same authors are indeed very high. We have also to ask about other products from the same authors as well as regard the whole Bulgarian historiography concerning Macedonia with great suspicion.

There have been another falsification with stone inscription found or made from Stamen Vasilev from Sandanski in Bulgaria.Commision from state institutions have found that newest inscription is falsificat. It is obvious that nathional-romantisam is in production busines long time in Bulgaria

Еxcuse me, but what are you prove with the information about the other inscriptions. If you know some scientist who think that Bitola inscription is a fake, please be honest, poit him - his exact thesis, title, page. I assert that there is not scientists (not journalists) that assert openly that the Bitola inscription is a fake. Even in Macedonia (or Serbia). It is not true the information in the article that the term „Блъгарїнь“ (bl'garin') or bulgarians as „Блъгаромь„ (bl'garom') is a 19th century pronounciation of bulgarian/s. This is the term from ІХ centurу. I reccomend to all who understand Bulgarian language to see in disscussion page of Bulgarian articleq where I pointed many evidences about the term bl'garin in IX-XIII centuries (bg:Беседа:Битолски надпис). Regards, --AKeckarov 21:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To Bomac

The Bitola Inscription was officially recognised as authentic in former Yugoslavia (although late as its existence was concealed for obvious reasons for nearly a decade) and is the subject of a number of research books there. Trying to include in the article tabloid theories questioning its authenticity when even your own country has acknowledged the authenticity has nothing to do with NPOV and in wiki language is called "trolling". As for the discrepancy in the names, check again your sources: Bulgarian in old Bulgarian (Preslav Literary School) is and has always been "блъгарин", "болгарин" is Church Slavonic, dear. Please, don't occupy us with popular myths circulating in nationalistic circles in the Republic of Macedonia. VMORO 13:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)