Talk:Box office bomb

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Isn't there another article on this subject? If I remember correctly, it wasn't a stub. Rintrah 17:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

There was another one, but wildly unsourced in the end.

So it was deleted? Rintrah 01:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of "box office bomb"

Alister, we get that you're just hell bent on "winning" the List of box office bombs AfD (which, with the tally 4-6 against deletion five days in, is pretty unlikely), but this is verging into WP:SNOW and dealing in bad faith and definitely a WP:POINT violation. Are you seriously trying to tell us that because you have yet to see a link (excuse me, a link you can't find some excuse to ignore) explicitly stating "The definition of a box office bomb is ..." you refuse to accept that the term exists? Let me put it baldly: do you deny that the term is in widespread vogue, and that the accepted definition in the business is a money-losing film?

Let's take it down the line. The Washington Post article's headline claims that F9/11 isn't a box office bomb ... and the only information thereafter describes the film's unexpected financial success. The Ask Yahoo link describes nothing but ... films that lost money at the box office. The Wiktionary link gives the accepted definition ... but, well, right, that would discredit the argument, huh? As far as the Cineaste and LA Daily News links go, your unwillingness to read any source you can't do from your computer is not our problem; the references are there and correct. In all cases, the purpose of the sources is to establish that the term is widespread throughout the media industry. Which it demonstrably is. RGTraynor 09:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't dispute whether the term is in widespread use. What I am asking for is a something that defines what a "box office bomb" is. Is it just simply when a film takes in less many than it cost to make, or when it doesn't even take in half what it cost to make? Less than ten percent? Surely if a film makes almost what it cost to make then it can't be called "a bomb", so where does the line fall? 50%? 25%? 10%? On the list's AFD page, User:Mangojuice says less than 30%. Can that be sourced?

Again, I'm asking you to define "box office bomb" not prove the term in is widespread use. AlistairMcMillan 13:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

And I decline to play that game; it's a thinly disguised straw man argument. It is no more likely that a hard and fast ruling exists than there is a hard and fast definition of what constitutes "black" in terms of race; nevertheless, Wikipedia maintains numerous racially based lists, without AfDs being filed by editors demanding that such lists follow strict definitions and that such terms be rigidly defined. This article does a good job in discussing and sourcing the concept, and the list operates off of films where the domestic gross failed to meet the reported budgets. You are seeking rigidity which doesn't exist ... and which isn't required. RGTraynor 15:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

So basically the list article is a list of films that Wikipedia defines as box office bombs. And you don't see a problem with that? AlistairMcMillan 16:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I see a list of films that follow a rigid criteria of failing to recoup their budgets, tagged with an appellation in widespread use and with a generally accepted meaning, and no, I have no problem with that. RGTraynor 16:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Third Opinion My opinion in this case is simple:

• A source for the definition is not needed, because it is clear from both Wiktionary and the use in over 40.000 google hits. ([1] - search minus Dramarama because they have an album of the same name.)
• This does not mean one can clearly define a film as a box office bomb or not - flop is a much better term. A percentage of the total budget is an awkward definition - one could argue for an absolute number, or a percentage of budget divided by number of minutes in the film, or the number of people visiting the film, etc.
• Conclusion: box office bomb is a subjective term that cannot be applied to any film by straightforward logical deducations - or: one will need to provide a source stating the picture in question is a box office bomb to list it on Wikipedia.
• This is clearly connected to the AfD going on - please discuss on the appropiate page. (i.e.: the AfD page)

--User:Krator (t c) 20:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)