Talk:Celle
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Too many pictures. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.22.233.59 (talk • contribs) .
- Definitely not. Given Celle's abundance of half-timber houses, a few more might even be nice. That said, the article contained several problems, including historical inaccuracies (Celle wasn't flattened in WWII like Braunschweig, but it was bombed. It was also near Bergen-Belsen and lots of transports on their way there passed through), so I did a lot more work on it than I had initially intended (I'd come for the pictures! <g>). It could still use some work, as it is not yet up to snuff. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 14:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Those are my pics- Actually I have a lot more from my visit, I went nuts with the half timbered houses and they make up practically the whole town. I'll go back a see if I have any other nice ones, and maybe higher res versions of the the ones that are there. Pschemp | Talk 18:13, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I saw them first on your user page (I arrived there when checking the edit history for another, Japan-related article I wanted to work on). They are indeed very nice. Another town with similar charm is Wolfenbüttel, situated on the other side (i.e., south) of Braunschweig. Wolfenbüttel was also the residence of dukes of the House of Welf and, like Celle, has many half-timber houses from previous centuries. Jim_Lockhart 03:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Ok, I've put what I've got at Commons Category:Celle, Germany but I'm not sure how to replace the ones on wikipedia with higher res commons files....just kinda clueless here. Take a look at the pics and then if you know what to do, go for it and expalin how to me. Thanks. pschemp | talk 06:23, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- All done. Nice pix; when did you visit? I haven't been to Celle since about 1980. I used to drive through on my way to Hamburg when I didn't feel like taking the Autobahn. Anyhow, it seems that the Image: tag now grabs graphics for the Commons. Don't have time to do any more right now, though. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 14:31, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Changes of 17 February 2007
I have reverted the following paragraph for the reasons listed further below:
On April 8, 1945, a train carrying victims from the concentration camp Drütte was accidentally hit by bombs resulting in hundreds of deaths. Many surviving victims managed to escape into the surrounding woods. However, SS men and local citizens set after them and killed hundreds more in what became known as the Hasenjagd ("hare hunt"). The 500 survivors were forcibly marched to the nearby concentration camp Bergen-Belsen leading to even more death because of the victims' exhaustion. On April 12th the town was liberated by the British Army. Its govenor, Mayor Hudson had the town's mayor arrested for this incident
- The people on the transport are more appropriately termed prisoners, as at this point they were not yet dead (which victims implies) nor were they victims of the camp (to be precise: at the point they became victims, they were ones of the Hasenjagd), so referring to them as concentration camp victims is more appropriate for a journalistic piece or essay than an encyclopedic article.
- The article on Neuengamme does not mention Drütte anywhere, so the reference is confusing without further qualification (or a description of Drütte).
- "Many surviving victims" seems to mean "survivors of the bombing of the train," but as it stands, the sentence is ambiguous as well as emotively worded.
- No source is given for the cited number of survivors (of the Hasenjagd?), the origin of the the transport (Drütte), the forced march to Bergen-Belsen, the date of liberation of Celle by the British, and the arrest of the mayor.
- Further, who is the gove[r]nor referred to as Mayor Hudson (is Mayor a mistake for Major?), and what was he governor of? Can Hudson's first name be found somewhere?
Please note that I am not implying that the material I reverted is incorrect; I am saying it is unsourced and that I believe that it was hastily written. I suggest rewriting it as follows, but with a sources or sources, particularly for the parts rendered in red:
During an air raid on Celle's rail infrastructure on April 8, 1945, a train carrying prisoners from the Drütte subcamp of the Neuengamme concentration camp was hit by bombs, resulting in hundreds of deaths. Many survivors managed to flee into the surrounding woods, but SS men and local citizens set after them and killed thousands more in what became known as the Hasenjagd ("bunny chase"), which ended on April 10. Of the 500 escapees caught, many died of exhaustion while being marched to the nearby Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. On April 12 Celle was surrendered to the British Army, and the British military governor of the area, Major [name] Hudson, had the town's mayor arrested for the incident.
Of the above, material in red needs to be veritably sourced; that is black is already sourced to the German Wikipedia article on Celle.
One last word: I believe Hasenjagd is better rendered bunny chase in English because I think bunny chase more accurately reflects the cynical nuance of the German expression that the more-literal rabbit or hare chase. Best regards, Jim_Lockhart 15:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
