User talk:Cfvh/Archive4

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1 Belcourt Castle
2 Page moves
3 National anthems
4 Augustus III of Poland
5 Charles of Hesse
6 Amedeo, 5th Duke of Aosta
7 Pretender
8 Caron
9 Byzantine names: suggested moratorium
10 Could you elaborate?
11 See also portuguese newspaper about their pretender
12 Talk:Freiherr
13 Princess Benedikte of Denmark
14 Augusta Reuss-Ebersdorf
15 THE USURPER DUARTE PIO OF BRAGANZA
16 Meissen

Belcourt Castle

I agree that my little remark about the castle chandelier was more amusing than informative, but I couldn't resist tucking it in. Some years back I was with a group using the castle for a private ball- it wasn't an entirely pleasant experience. They cleared out the lower hall for a dance floor but the chandelier hangs so very low that it is quite possible to run into it, especially while doing a fast 19th C. gallop. In addition they had polished the tile floor to the point where several people slipped on it and hurt themselves. The place was run in a very puzzling way- we were using a beautiful Steinway concert grand & they put a lit candelabra on it- quite beautiful, but during the evening it spilled wax all over the finish & they observed this & seemed to care nothing. It was a memorable evening, but not,perhaps, in a good way.

It's probably time for me to register- I've tampered with Wikipedia enough already. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.251.230.71 (talk • contribs) .

Page moves

Hello Cfvh, I am simply against unilateral page moves. Please use WP:RM to propose the move. Also, please review WP:CIVIL at your convenience. Appleseed (Talk) 18:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The naming of Polish monarchs is the subject of ongoing debate. Please use WP:RM to allow other members of WP to voice their opinions, which will result in article titles supported by community consensus. Appleseed (Talk) 18:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying your proposal is wrong. I'm simply asking you to engage the community by using WP:RM. Appleseed (Talk) 18:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

National anthems

Hello, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the use of foreign languages for the article titles in Category:National anthems. Appleseed (Talk) 00:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Our talk pages. There's no official discussion that I'm aware of. Appleseed (Talk) 00:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I see. As for the Polish anthem, it currently has an English title (Dąbrowski's Mazurka), but I don't think it's ever sung in English. In fact, I doubt most of the non-English language anthems are sung in English. Would you support moving them to their original languages? Appleseed (Talk) 00:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I get a mere 135 English language results, not including WP, but including its mirrors. Appleseed (Talk) 02:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I get nearly the same amount (~700) for both. Does Google even take diacritics into account? Appleseed (Talk) 02:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Augustus III of Poland

After giving in another thought, I apologize for our discussion at Talk:Augustus_III_of_Poland#renaming efforts of Appleseed. You were right for the beginning. I'm sorry for your time I've wasted and appreciate your staying cool. --Lysy^talk 05:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Charles of Hesse

I just could do that, but I prefer that you first start a discussion about it, as I can not find any anywhere. Bring forth your arguments, and see what comes of it. The best way is probably to make a Wikipedia:Requested moves request, bring forth your arguments (solid sources discussing the name difference for example). I think that that is more productive than me moving it back (several weeks after it was done). Sorry to disappoint you for the moment, but if you have good arguments, it will get moved back. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 15:56, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

If there had been some discussion, I would maybe have done it, but for me as an outsider, I just have to rely on what others tell me in this case. As such, I am hesitant to do so. -- Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 16:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that there is an absolutely definitive case for either "Prince Charles of Hesse" or "Prince Charles of Hesse-Cassel" or "Prince Charles of Hesse-Kassel". The Library of Congress uses "Karl, Landgraf zu Hessen-Kassel, 1744-1836". "Hesse" and "Hesse-Cassel" both seem to be used in English-language works (I have nowhere found "Hesse-Kassel"). A similar variety ("Hessen" and "Hessen-Kassel") exists in German-language publications.

I would recommend leaving the name at present (yes, I know it's wrongly constructed). What really needs to be addressed is the content and English of this article; it is presently atrocious.

Here is what I have found in English-language works; :

"Charles of Hesse Cassel"

Annual Register (1766)
Annual Register (1767)
Royal Kalendar (1769)
Annual Register (1774)
New Annual Register (1789)
Mayo's Chronological History (1793)
Baruel's Memoirs (1797)
Sequel to Heinrich Stilling (1836)

"Charles of Hesse"

Toze's Present State of Europe (1770)
Annual Register (1772)
Annual Register (1776)
Annual Register (1788)
Memoirs Relative to the Campaign of 1788 in Sweden (1789)
Gillies' View of the Reign of Frederick II (1789)
Barlow's History of England (1795)
The Correspondence of Baron Armfelt (1795)
Gibbons' Miscellaneous Works (1796)
Perry's French Revolution (1796)
Bouille's Memoirs (1797)
The Britannic Magazine (1797)
Castera's History of the Reigns of Peter III and Catharine II (1798)
Castera's Life of Catharine II (1798)
Aikin's General Biography (1799)
Schenider's Danish Grammar (1799)

Noel S McFerran 17:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Amedeo, 5th Duke of Aosta

Charles, I started to translate the subsidiary titles - and then thought better of it with "della" (of the). Perhaps it would be better to state "His subsidiary titles include Principe della Cisterna e di Belriguardo, Marchese di Voghera, and Conte di Ponderano" (i.e. in Italian). That, or translate everything into English. Noel S McFerran 18:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Pretender

I meant to mention. I've semi-protected the pretender article to try to stop deSousa's vandalism. If he appears on any more articles, let me know and I'll semi-protect them also. - Jtdirl

I think that the sousa editor is no longer pushing his claimant to the Duarte Pio article, but is just trying to write the criticism facts (such as reference to constitutional bar of Migueline line) to that article. I am sure you agree that such points are acceptable. ObRoy 20:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Caron

Regarding your vote at this article's discussion, please recheck that what you have heard is really "english". Hacek is listed at Merriam-Webster English dictionary [1], however caron isn't [2]. The same is true for the Oxford English Dictionary. From this viewpoint, hacek is a more legitimate english word than "caron", which is probably an Adobe/IT neologism. You might have heard it more often because it is used in the IT/typesetting industry, particularly by Unicode, but it should be noted that non-computer sources use hacek almost exclusively. 85.70.5.66 10:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Byzantine names: suggested moratorium

On Talk:List of Byzantine Emperors I've suggested a limited moratorium because I don't think the current discussion is leading to, or can lead to, consensus. I hope you'll vote, for or against! Best wishes Andrew Dalby 13:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Could you elaborate?

As you are the first neutral editor to demand my resignation, I would very much like to hear your reasoning for this.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 03:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. For what it is worth, I would not repeat such a move in the future (now I prefer the legitimacy of RM :) ). But I think that borth of my move series were justifiable: in the first one, there was a (slight, but...) majority for the moves. The second one was a case of fixing double redirects and I chose the easiest way. I explain the moves (again...) in detail in one of my last posts (at the bottom, 'The real issue of consensus (Piotrus reply)' section, and you may also look at the conclusion by our mediator at 'Response from Keitei', as well as 'Comments by Olessi' in the main section. I respect your right to demand my resignation, but let me also ask you this in the end: is a single disuputed move (as in 'done in one day'), months ago, enough to determine a user is not qualifed to be an admin? And yes, I have made a few more erros in my editing history - but please take into allowence my being around the Top 150 most active editor and that humans err, and the more active ones tend to err more often. Do you think there is an incivil/abusive trend in my edits which makes me a danger to Wikipedia if I remain an admin? Or do you think that a few past mistakes should disqualify a person from that position? Again, I respect your right to say yest to both counts - but is it what you want to say by demanding my resignation?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 04:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I completly agree I have a Polish bias. As per WP:NPOV, we don't expect any editor to be unbiased (although you find some who think they are truly neutral from time to time :>). In retrospective, I think my main error regarding this move was not bringing the discussion at the Talk:List... to WP:NC page. Which was probably because at that time I did not know there were users discussing the NC respective to rulers, or I thought they would be watching the List... page were we were discussing them. I don't remember, realy, it was months ago. Now I make it a habit to search extensivly for projects/discussion pages involved with any major changes, and I do all my moves with RM (unless I am really, really sure they are not controversial). I am not sure what you mean by "the depth and concentrated effort directed towards these actions" though. I have been involved with discussions about renaming those articles for years, if this is what you mean...? Do I feel that this was a singular event? Well, I have moved many articles, but I don't think any of them were controversial like the Polish monarchs. Then, consider, the Polish monarch case was 'brought back' after months since the original move - who knows what other action of mine somebody will consider controversial in the coming months or years :) I can honestly say I am not aware of any disputes regarding my civility or admin behaviour other then those brought on those page. Thank you for taking the time to comment in the mediation, I think that only 'outside' voices can break the 'logical stalemate' we are with Elonka.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 04:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Freiherr

hey Charles, yes I looked into what you showed me, it baffles me why this is spinning out of control with such an edit war. I am inviting you and the other User:Fastifex to post the views on the talk page of Freiherr, I don't want to put in a block on the article because of an edit war yet. I hope this will help defuse the situation. cheers.. Gryffindor 15:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Princess Benedikte of Denmark

I think that I might have inadvertantly stirred this mess up. I asked an innocent question on her talk page, which was never answered. From there, it seemed to take on a life of its own. Now thinking about it, her royal title does outweigh her marital princely title, must have had a lapse in good judgement. Sorry. Prsgodd e ss187 18:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I realized after the fact that Princess of Denmark is her primary title, although she is entitled to the other. And now it is such a mess of move, un-move, re-move, UGH!! Why don't people follow the proper procedure for these things... Oh well, that's what we deal with with a Wiki. Prsgodd e ss187 19:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

If I might comment, as the evil mover causing a mess- I had no intention of that happening. I merely noted that Wiki protocols state that a wife take her husbands marital title until death, and saw there was no objection on the talk page. Furthermore, If she is the Princess of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, as the consort of a sovereign prince that title outranks her Danish one. I'm very sorry, but I had no idea that all this chaos was going on on other people's pages. No-one bothered to tell me until I received an angry rant and block threat today, at which I felt slightly hurt. Nonthless I have stopped, although threatening wasn't necessary for that to happen. Yanksta x 22:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Augusta Reuss-Ebersdorf

Hi Charles, what's up? What do you think of this current naming: Augusta Reuss-Ebersdorf, any thoughts...? cheers Gryffindor 10:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC) ps: did the problem with Freiherr solve itself or are there still issues that IYO remain open?

I would just go with "Augusta Caroline, Countess Reuss (of Ebersdorf and Lobenstein)" with the location as well if you will. The countess part needs to go somewhere, she was not queen-consort of a sovereignty. regarding Albert of Saxe-Teschen, I saw the monument to him in front of the Albertina, clearly written in the plaque on the base "Erherzog Albert" or something, but I'll check again, but I clearly remember him having the archduke title. Unless the equestrian statue happens to be for another Albert.... When I get to it, I will upload those images I took in the Commons, we can take a closer look at it again later. Gryffindor 19:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

THE USURPER DUARTE PIO OF BRAGANZA

Reinsert in Duarte Pio page the exclusion of the Miguel descendants from the succession and the exclusion of Duarte also because he is born Swiss. So you consider Maria Pia no rights to succession because illegittimate daughter of the king but you must remember also Duarte Pio has no rights to succession for these TWO reasons, and not only for one as Maria Pia case. Please became impartial also if you want hide the hystorical truth of the Royal House of Portugal and you support the usurper miguelist pretender.

Meissen

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll take a look. I also recommend posting pointers to the discussion at the talk pages of WP:UE and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (standard letters with diacritics). --Elonka 23:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S., you might want to take a look at this one: Countess Maralyn Ramsay. --Elonka 23:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

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