Talk:Colectivo

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Contents 1 Things 2 Blur, not death 3 Trivia 4 Ehemm... Why not ??? 5 Peer Review 6 To add insult to injury 7 first section 8 Peer Review topics 8.1 Colectivos all around Argentina 8.2 Mario Vargas Llosa 9 THIS IS WAR !!!... Survival of the Colectivo traditions Buenos Aires' streets 10 Remember me ... 11 Bigger main pic 12 "corporate colors", 13 Anon comment 14 Paraguay

[edit] Things

Colectivo is not only a name. But a local tradition of Buenos Aires, with a large history.

From the bus-taxis to the truck-buses. Like that, Colectivo name was coined.

It is like the discussion of the Dulce de Leche, where the Mexicans know it like Cajeta. There is an article dedicated to the Dulce de Leche and another one to the Cajeta.

(note → and this is a Featured Article... Bathing machine)

And what about this ??? → Double-decker bus is that an article with nostalgic tones, with falses conclusions? --Zzzzzzus 17:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

Although the Colectivo has a as long tradition as the one of the article.

And Argentina (and Buenos Aires) had and have a cultural weight in the world of great magnitude. Although this has little to do with our discussion.

The Death of the Colectivo is a consideration about the tradition. Obvious the porteños do not use massively taxis by now (2005). Because still there are buses :-D... But the tradition was lost. And this one is the opinion of specialists of the subject, that they even can be consulted in the references of the article. --Zzzzzzus 14:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

Colectivos are still painted in distintive colours.

That is relatively true, because many lines are losing multiple colors, by other solids. --Zzzzzzus 14:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

'Fileteado' is still visible

The Fileteado is extinguished. And I live in Buenos Aires and daily I see all the líneas of Colectivo. And in the 70s and 80s the Fileteado was really massive in all the units.--Zzzzzzus 14:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Blur, not death

The tradition of the Colectivo is not dead. But blurred.

It continues being recognized socially in Buenos Aires. But it was modernized. Also, they use simpler colors (only one, even), lost the fileteados. Are mostly Bus-Buses, etc.

Not so far like extinguished, as some investigator wrote.--Zzzzzzus 13:50, 20 September 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Trivia

WOW!!! I love this section too !!! --Zzzzzzus 05:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Ehemm... Why not ???

It needs a lot of copyedit... I'll try to do it. If I can finish it, I will nominate. --Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 16:01, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I dont know I changed my mind ... whatever --Zzzzzzus 16:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

Huh? What do you mean you changed your mind? I've been working on the article for the last hour! --Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 17:02, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Though overall it's well oriented, the article is greenish. Some common sense concepts were fucking distorted (grrr!!!) in the Copyedits...

If I'm not mistaken, the article of this Argenitnian "invention" arose the passions among the porteños, and our memories of life. We all want to give an opinion. But after all, I am still here in Buenos Aires and my family is in the business of the Colectivo.

Some day, may be (lol). But we have to work in some concepts. Also, some pictures should pass through my Photoshp.exe... --Zzzzzzus 03:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Peer Review

I am about to nominate this article for Peer Review. Please refrain from making changes not related to this review until this process is complete. Then, we can nominate for FA.

--Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 17:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] To add insult to injury

hahah that was great --Zzzzzzus 17:38, 3 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

The article is really beautiful... --200.126.134.131 13:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] first section

Emphasize the fact that they competed with the English companies, at the beginning of the article... ...

ZZZ, I think it's plenty clear that "Colectivo" and "Bus" are two different things, especially since the spirit of the article refers to the individual Buenos Aires staple and not the concept of a multi passenger vehicle. The comparison is not that relevant and we need to keep the intro succint. See Wikipedia:The perfect article and Wikipedia:What is a featured article

--Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 17:44, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

ok... i agree with you ... Let us leave the commentary just in this section, then. But remember that for the porteño is: Perón, Malvinas, Maradona... blah blah blah, ;-D --Zzzzzzus 13:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Peer Review topics

[edit] Colectivos all around Argentina

To start with, there are colectivos all around Argentina, not just in BA. Ejrrjs | What? 20:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

True, although they don't share the same folk characteristics. Feel free to edit to accomodate this statements. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Thats not true. El Colectivo is just like the futbol (or almost everything in Argentina), something Metropolitano, unitarist. To think in other way is erroneous (and ridiculous). The real federalism of Argentina (a coincidence) started with Menem in 1990 (when the blurring of the colectivo tradition). Again the example of La Fiesta De Todos, Argentina played in Rosario, but all the histories are in the buildings of Buenos Aires... not "all around". That populism of the Proceso dictated this time that Argentina is: Buenos Aires, Futbol, Malvinas, Peron, etc... Yo can go to discuss that to Videla and the Military Forces of those years... But its not recommendable.--Zzzzzzus 15:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Mario Vargas Llosa

Santiago regresa al paradero, el colectivo que toma es un Chevrolet y tiene la :radio encendida, in Mario Vargas Llosa, Conversación en La Catedral (1969), :ISBN 8420484164

This is Lima circa 1955. Further descriptions indicate that it is the same :kind of public transportation than the original colectivo porteño. Perhaps some Peruvian wikipedian could help on this one. Ejrrjs | What? 21:14, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Chevrolet its only one kind of van-buses, before the arrival of Mercedes Benz. --Zzzzzzus 13:39, 4 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

I believe that these details are (somehow) superficial. Also were elements like some corporations of bus-buses, that lasted a decade (without the colectivo characteristics, and competed and they lost one more time because were pushed out of the system, eventually)... And some companies took the Mercedes Benz and pushed the motors to the back (called chanchas)... But its not the kind of things that appeared in La Fiesta de Todos, in example, that was a Mercedes Benz with knick nacks and fileteados, and nothing else... If Jorge Rafael Videla says... I wont discuss him... (its scary)--Zzzzzzus 13:45, 4 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] THIS IS WAR !!!... Survival of the Colectivo traditions Buenos Aires' streets

Dont worry the next are just commentaries to the Talk section...

In the last days (with all this Wiki article) I observed something very funny in Buenos Aires (and I live in the Once neighborhood and move around watching a lot of colectivos, daily; besides that my uncle is colectivero and owns a colectivo)...

Some lines are keeping the last blurred colectivo traditions delibertely. Like declaring: "this is a colectivo", with all the characteristics descripted in the WIki-article.

Lineas 60, 68, and others (20%)→ Mercedes Benz+Fileteado+Keeping colors. All this built out from the body of the units factories. (of Bus-Buses)

Lineas 86, 84, 135, and others (40%)→ El Detalle units + clean block of colors (white, blue, red). Like embarrassed to paint the units, and put fileteados, etc. And this lines before 1990 were just like the first ones.

Lineas 24, and others (40%)→ changing from the first to the second.

This is very notorious. With some of the líneas fighting with others to keep (or not) the tradition. That recognizes the argumentational lines of the article ... thats the evidence that this is the way the Colectivo tradition is.--Zzzzzzus 13:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Remember me ...

This article is beautiful. First Hollywood film or mod to Midtown Madness, please me, in the ... Argentinian Legion !!! :-D --Zzzzzzus 13:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Bigger main pic

A suggestion, Sebas: Wider the main picture of the colectivo 271, to the double of its actual size.--Zzzzzzus 06:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] "corporate colors",

Sorry I really think it's irrelevant, and confuses who tries to discover the real Colectivo. I don't know... about this, I suppose that the most concrete example (that I saw in my life) could be 60-38 (in the 1980s daily there, in Barrancas de Belgrano). But sincerely, it's completely irrelevant. --Zzzzzzus 03:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

ZZZ, it is actually very relevant. What is irrelevant is naming lines one by one. Colectivos are not present only in BA and mentioning one by one is not appropriate. Colectivo 60 has its own page, you're welcome to create more if you think it's good. Sebastian Kessel ^Talk 18:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Thats simply not true... Both things. Whatever. --24.232.152.200 01:50, 7 November 2005 (UTC)zzzzzzus

[edit] Anon comment

I live in Buenos Aires and I cannot really see local buses as cultural value. It is just a way of public transport, not very different from cities such as Paris. In fact, the transport industry is not something to be proud of. It has never been a good industry and is still losing a lot of money. Buses are not even maintained clean and they are the main contribution to pollution in the city (could be something to be proud of). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.89.168.229 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Paraguay

The buses in Paraguay are also called "colectivos" - should that be mentioned? zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

By all means. Is it the preferred word, or it is only also used? Mariano(t/c) 08:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Definitely preferred (particularly in rural areas). zafiroblue05 | Talk 12:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)