Talk:Counties of Hungary
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are 6 counties that have an ambiguous name: Békés county, Csongrád, Heves, Pest (county), Tolna and Veszprém County. Of these, Csongrád, Heves and Tolna need to be split, since they currently cover the county and a town. I want to open a discussion on two things:
- For all these except Pest and Veszprém, the county is far more significant than the town (Pest is a special case). I think for Békés, Csongrád, Heves and Tolna the article "X" should be about the county, with a reference to "X (town)".
- Regardless the outcome of the previous point: the disambiguated articles should have uniform titles. We have three options in use now:
- X county - also in use for some of the former Hungarian counties in Slovakia
- X (county) - also in use for some of the former Hungarian counties
- X County - standard for counties in several countries
Markussep 19:36, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I think the naming should be consistent; if in one case the town is the more significant, then why is in the other case the county the more significant? Also, the counties were, in a certain way, named after the towns (actually named for the castles in these towns.) I think the counties should have "County" added to their names; not only these counties, but the others too, in order to not mess up the templates; also, if other countries use this too, it would be more consistent. Alensha 13:24, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- For me the criterium would be the size or historical significance of the town. It doesn't matter what was first, or what was named after what. What would the average user think of when reading "Tolna", the town or the county?
- I totally agree about consistent naming. At Wikipedia:WikiProject Subnational entities/Naming you can see the current use for other countries' subdivisions. Personally, I prefer to use the subdivision term only when it's necessary for disambiguation, like it's done for all the countries with an asterisk in the list. If you're going to move them all to X County, there's no discussion about how significant the town is, that's an advantage. About the template, do you mean "Hungarian counties"? That's easily fixed with piping. BTW I think your split of Békés created a lot of wrong links (to the town instead of the county). Markussep 14:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
-
- I'll fix those wrong links. By template I meant the Template:HungaryCities, which is added to the article of every municipality. It would be easier if the naming were consistent, else probably we'll need two versions of the template.
- About significance: I can't really tell what would the average user think when hearing "Tolna"; all the people I know say "Tolna county", "Heves county" etc., they leave "county" off only when the name of the county is long enough even without it. I agree that by Veszprém most people mean the city of Veszprém, and by Pest most people mean Budapest (actually calling it simply Pest is somewhat incorrect but very widespread) but the others are hard to decide. I'll ask the other Hungarians about this matter. Alensha 13:39, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't know whether the towns or the counties should be disambiguated by comments. Perhaps we do add the word "county" to counties in speech if they consist of only one element each. However, I wouldn't like to see them as "Tolna County", since "County" is not an official part of the name. I think I prefer the form "Tolna (county)" (also because of the option of piped linking); perhaps I could accept "Tolna county" as well, if it really has to be this way. Adam78 00:14, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For me also the capital C is weird, but I'm not a native English speaker. I've gradually stopped worrying about details like that. What I do still find important is what the user sees when he/she types for instance Tolna after ../wiki/ . But well, all this can be solved. I'm OK with your X (county) option (and consequently, X is about the town). Alensha? Markussep 01:53, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- X county or X (county) is fine. I prefer the one without brackets but it really doesn't matter as long as it's consistent. I agree that County with a capital C seems odd but I didn't know whether it's the proper English way to spell it. I'm fixing the links as soon as it's decided which name format will we use. Thanks for the second template.
- I just noticed that in addition to these six counties we also have to disambiguate Nógrád because of a small town of the same name (I don't know when will it have an article but eventually it will.) Also, in several cases we also have a historical county that should be a separate article... should those be like "Nógrád (comitatus)"? Alensha 13:09, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
just to make things more complicated, it seems that Tolna is also the name of a US city... Alensha 13:48, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- You're right, Tolna, North Dakota, population 202, and they call it a city! Let's ignore that. About historical counties, if they have the same name as present counties, let's make them part of the history section of the present county.
- X (county) it is, I'll try to move Veszprém and Békés, after that we can start splitting the others.Markussep 14:00, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I fixed the templates in the articles, now HungaryCities2 is used where (county) is after the county name, and HungaryCities is used when the name is without (county). I also disambiguated some things, but the "what links here" sections are refreshed very slowly. Alensha 23:55, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
