Talk:Explosively formed penetrator

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[edit] EFP's as a special type of shaped charge?

"An explosively formed penetrator (EFP), self forging warhead or self forging fragment is a special type of shaped charge that is designed to penetrate effectively at long range."

I find it questionable to describe EFPs as a "special type of shaped charge".

Early in the article it states, "A conventional shaped charge has a generally conical metal liner that projects.... An EFP, on the other hand, has a liner in the shape of a shallow dish."

The purpose of the metal liner inside the conical cavity of the shaped charge is to add greater mass to the "jet" enabling greater penetration. It should be noted that these liners are far thinner than the disk found on EFP/SFF's.

The article later states, "The charges are generally cylindrical, fabricated from commonly available water or oil pipe with the forward end closed by a concave copper or steel disk (liner) to create a shaped charge."

This does absolutely nothing to create a shaped charge. The key thing is consistency in the metal of the disk, consistency in the placement and composition of the explosive charge and that the explosive charge is center primed. Read some of the patents that are published about EFPs.

When we were shown how to make expedient/improvised explosive devices while I was on active duty in the early 90's we were shown how to make something called a platter charge.

Go to [1] and search down toward the bottom for "Figure 13-16. Platter charge"

"PLATTER CHARGE The platter charge (Figure 13-16) consists of a suitable container that is filled with uniformly packed explosive and placed behind a platter. The platter is metal (preferably round, but square is satisfactory) and weighs 1 to 3 kilograms..."

In a nutshell the term "shaped charge" should primarily apply to devices where the actualy "shape" of the explosives is the primary determinant in the devise's effects.

The platter charge should be called just that a platter charge - unless there is a more specific and descriptive name. The projectile that results from its detonation should be called the Explosively Formed Penetrator or Self Forging Fragment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.226.49.191 (talk) 11:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

• What is opposite of shaped charge? Bulk charge! EFP is not bulk. Both EFP and old-fashioned shaped charge have special shapes to focus effect of explosion, unlike bulk charge which explodes equally in all directions. Also, Walter's book on shaped charge (see Refs) has a small chapter on EFP. That book also discusses charges in between shapes of old conical shaped charge and EFP, like hemispherical charge. In platter charge, shape is also important--don't put platter upside down, won't work! Also, that Global Security site you mentioned has another page with EFP and shaped charge together, but not bulk charge. It says EFP liner can be a wide angle cone, logical extension of concept of old narrow conical shaped charge.--MajorHazard 11:25, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iran Connection

Should the current claimed connection between Iran and EFPs in Iraq be discussed? The talking heads claiming a link to Iran cite that Iran is especially adapt at making EFPs. They don't give real citations though. I wouldn't consider anything that Michael Gordon (or the current administration) says to be of a high enough quality to be on wikipedia either.

It doesn't seem right to go into political matters in the body of this technical article. On reflection, do you not agree? John Wheater 07:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree wholly with John Weather, political controversies do not belong in a technical article, especially when they are more than two thirds of the article and furthermore degenerate into an edit war. Victor falk 07:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)VictorFalk