Talk:Fraternal birth order
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[edit] Citations needed
Theres a lot of material being presented as hard facts in this stub. The references are listed but exactly what were they used for? Articles in Wikipedia are constantly updated and edited so everything needs to be directly cited.
Is Ray Blanchard's 1997 paper the earliest?
Could use some discussion of Histocompatibility-Y (H-Y) antigen hypothesis
No, there were papers in 1995 (also by Blanchard I believe) and 1996. I will locate the references and insert at least the earliest. Aftermath 00:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know if these properly identify older brothers in specific...
- BLANCHARD, R. & SHERIDAN, P. M. (1992) Sibship size, sibling sex ratio, birth order, and parental age in homosexual and nonhomosexual gender dysphorics. J. Nerv. Ment. Dis. 180, 40-47.
- BLANCHARD, R. & ZUCKER, K. J. (1994) Reanalysis of Bell, Weinberg, and Hammersmith's data on birth order, sibling sex ratio, and parental age in homosexual men. Am. J. Psychiat. 151, 1375-1376.
Pete.Hurd 05:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] homosexuality a pathology?
There is an underlying problem with this article in that it is premised on the assumption that homosexuality is a disorder of some kind. While 'fraternal birth order theory' may seek explanations for homosexuality or predictions of homosexuality - this theory is based on the premise that homosexuality is a disorder (consider the opposite notion of a theory that would seek to predict or explain heterosexuality). This wikipedia entry inadvertently (?) sides with this assumption. This was reflected first in the term 'observation' being used in the initial sentence rather than the more neutral and detached term 'theory' - i subsequently replaced it. There, however, remains several other sentences that are less easy to tweak into shape. such as: "The fraternal birth order effect is the strongest known predictor of sexual orientation..." It is the 'fraternal birth order effect theory' that seeks to predict sexual orientation - general society (and the medical establishment) no longer seeks this as there is no longer the assumption of homosexuality as abnormal. The problems in this article are a consequence of the premise of homosexuality as abnormality. Can anyone assist in tweaking the language so it more accurately reflects the neutrality of encyclopedic entries? p.s. this is my first discussion contribution - thanks for giving me material to inspire me enough! Piginmud 07:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] no engagement with my point?
Hi, I am curious as to why my alteration from 'observation' to 'theory' was re-changed without any discussion, or perhaps even refutation, of the issues i raised... isn't that the point of the discussion page/wikipedia? Piginmud 05:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- In the sentence "In psychology the "fraternal birth order" effect is the name given to the observation that the more older brothers a man has, the greater the probability is that he will have a homosexual sexual orientation." Observation is the proper descriptor. A theory would require a theoretical framework to explain the why the observation exists. Note that the HY-antigen hypothesis, is just that a hypothesis, rather than a theory or observation. Pete.Hurd 15:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
