Talk:Fula people

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"They are the only major migrating people of West Africa." The Tuaregs are sometine met very far in the south of West Africa. Ericd 13:39, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The Toucouleur, who are a sedentary people, refer to themselves as Halpulaar ("Pulaar speakers") and to Peulh people (nomadic people who sometimes pass through Halpulaar towns) as Peulfulbey or Fulbey.

I don't find the photo very as there's nothing that identify these women as Fula. In many country they wear coins in the hair.

Contents 1 Pullo ref 2 Removed comment that habe refers to the Hausa people. 3 Population 4 Fellata 5 Origins 6 Huge amount of work needed 7 Name for the (people and the) section

[edit] Pullo ref

What's the link to "pullo" intended to be in the intro? Can anyone clarify it? --Dvyost 16:25, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Removed link pending clarification. --Dvyost 22:16, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

pullo is the singular word for fulɓe.

[edit] Removed comment that habe refers to the Hausa people.

In Fulfulde, haaɓe means a non-Fulani African. What language group this refers to varies according to the place. In Nigeria and eastern Niger, this means a Hausa person, in western Niger this means a Zarma, in Burkina Faso a Mossi, in Mali a Dogon. There maybe some other variations in other places as well.

[edit] Population

An anonymous editor with a roving IP keeps trying to change the population info to 50 million. Until a source is cited, I will continue to revert this change. — BrianSmithson 14:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Just an added note: Pat I. Ndukwe in Fulani (1996) says that their numbers are estimated at 10 million. Ethnologue reports 886,700 speakers of Adamawa Fulfulde (various years), 180,000 speakers of Bagirmi Fulfulde (1996), 328,200 speakers of Borgu Fulfulde (1993, 2002), 450,000 speakers of Central-Eastern Niger Fulfulde, 919,700 speakers of Maasina Fulfulde (1991), 1,707,926 speakers of Nigerian Fulfulde (2000), 1,180,000 speakers of Western Niger Fulfulde (1998-9), 2,915,784 speakers of Pular (1991, 2002), and 3,244,020 speakers of Pulaar (1991, 1995, 2002). Adding these up, we get a total of 11,812,330 speakers of various versions of Fulfulde.

The page on Adamawa Fulfulde also says that there are "Possibly 13,000,000 speakers of all Fulfulde."

So, in the absence of any more authoritative population estimates, I'm going to change the population figure on the page to 10–13 million, citing Ndukwe and Ethnologue. — BrianSmithson 15:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fellata

Fellata, a group in Darfur, currently redirects here. I've seen occasional mention of "Fula speakers" in the south of Darfur, but don't have any idea how they fit with the rest of the group. If someone could offer some context, it would be much appreciated. - BanyanTree 01:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

There are Fulani in Sudan according to Fulani by Pat I. Ndukwe, so it's quite possible. Unfortunately, Ndukwe gives no more information. — BrianSmithson 09:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origins

I removed:

The exact origins of the Fulani people is shrouded in mystery. The following are some of the existing views:

" Some believe that they are from a Semitic origin. According to the tradition, the ancestors of Fulani is Jacob son of Israel, son of Issac, son of Abraham When Jacob left Canaan and went to Egypt where Joseph was established. The Israelites prospered and grew in population while living in Egypt. Fulani people descended from them. After a long time a new Pharaoh who did not know about Joseph's fame in Egypt, came to power. He made the Israelites work hard at slave labor. The Pharaoh oppressed the people, including Fulanis who were rich in cattle. They emigrated from Egypt, some of them went back to Palestine and Syria under Moses guidance and the other crossed the Nile with their cattle and headed west. They took the name of fouth or foudh meaning those who left. A group from the latter moved along the edges of the Sahara to Touat-Air and then to West-Africa.

Those who came to Masina (in present day Mali) spread to the neighboring regions where they were rejoined by Fulani groups from Morocco. It has established that about 700AD, Fulani groups from Morocco, moved southward, and invaded the regions of Tagout, Adrar, Mauritania, and Fuuta Tooro. The cradle of the Fulani group is situated in the Senegal River valley, where Fulanis established kingdoms. Until the beginning of the IX th Century..Around that period they continued their migration in the regions of Bundu, Bambouk, Diomboko, Kaarta, and Bagana Finally those who where concentrated in the Ferlo from the XI to the XIV century moved in various groups to the Fuuta Jalon, to the Volta river basin , to the Gurma, to the Haussa land, and to the Adamawa, Boghirme,Ouadai

Other versions of the Fulani origin include:

a- The mixing between the proto-Berber from North Africa, and the Bafur (the people who populated the Sahara)

b- Issued from Asiatic pastoral tribes that invaded Africa, crossed the Sahara and dispersed through all the West-Africa Sahalian zone

c- The Anthropologists declare that the study of many Fulbe cranian structure has indicated that they are intimately linked to the Ethiopians and that both types are very similar to the Egyptian crane structure. According to the eminent Anthropologist Mr. Verneau, the Fulbe origin has to closely link the Egypt." [Jamtan]

This needs a reliable source badly if it is to stay in the article. — BrianSmithson 22:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Huge amount of work needed

I just tinkered with the opening and the discussion of the tradition and history - but a lot of work is needed:

• More on the role of Fulas as herders (interactions with sedentary populations)
• Sedentarization
• Recent trends
• Accuracy re history (they spread before the 16th century, and Islam was not a factor until later
• The Jihad states section is one of the stronger, but needs some cleaning up
• A lot more on culture
• Language is another article and another issue

And that's just for starters... --A12n 01:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work on the name issue. In my experience, the name Fulani is more common in English than Fula. Would you agree? I'd propose a page move, but I'm mostly familiar with Nigerian and Anglophone Cameroonian usage. -- BrianSmithson 05:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree that Fulani seems more familiar in most English language literature. On the other hand Fula (or Fulah, or I've even seen Fullah) are common in the west of West Africa. (I'll start another section to pursue the discussion.) --A12n 21:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name for the (people and the) section

The question (from above) about the term to use in English for the Fulɓe is somewhat complicated. Note a discussion re the name for the language at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Languages/Fula. The British scholar David Arnott suggested using Fula for the language and Fulani for the people. That might be a solution here, but I'd suggest not doing so at least at the moment until more info can be gathered and opinions sounded.

There is a fashion to use the "autonym" for language and people, and that on the one hand seems reasonable, but on the other also seems very impractical to implement across languages for various reasons (sound systems, familiarity and ease of existing terms, etc.). In the case of the Fulɓe one notes increased use of Fulbe in academic literature in English. This could be a third option for Wikipedia. Personally I am not at all fond of it as it takes what in the Fula language is a nominal plural in the class for people (ɓe - one of the 26 or so noun classes) and generalizes it to all positions (noun, adjective; singular, plural; people, objects/animals). For example "a Fulbe mother" (from a Google search) is nonsense to me because Fulɓe is plural and mother (inna or nene [depends on dialect]) is singular. And when you get to inanimate objects ("a Fulbe manuscript") that's another problem. And so on. You start by wanting to be authentic by using "Fulbe" in English, but end up using it in ways that the original term "Fulɓe" would never be used in.

In some ways Arnott's solution of Fula and Fulani would work for broader education about the people in the context of African studies outreach. Fulani especially exists already in English much as, say, German or Chinese do (although historically more recent) and no one suggests we should start saying Deutsch or Zhongguo de.../Han.... For the moment I think Fula (which also exists in English) as it is in Wikipedia is workable and shouldn't be changed without some consideration.

Not sure how this will play out, but I post this anticipating that the question will come up and there will be a discussion about it. In the meantime there is plenty to do on the content. --A12n 21:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The one source I have that discusses all Fulani (rather than just those of Cameroon) is Fulani by Pat I. Ndukwe. He seems to agree with your assessment and suggests that Fulani is the most widespread name, and that Peul is preferred in French. Felaata is Kanuri, and Fulbe (singular Pulo) is German. Ndukwe says that Fulbe is the Fulani's own name for themselves. He gives the names Bororo and Toroobe for the "cattle" and "town" Fulani respectively but offers the alternatives of Fulani siire and Fulanin gida for the "town Fulani". Note that Wikipedia's article on the Bororo is currently at Wodaabe. I agree with you that more opinions would be good. But my vote at the moment is for Fulani, second choice Fulbe. — BrianSmithson 08:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

One further note: The earliest version of the article was created by an anonymous editor, so we won't be stepping on any toes if we move the article. — BrianSmithson 08:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Let me put the question to H-West-Africa (perhaps this weekend) to see what kind of echoes come back. Ultimately I'm a little leery of getting into a debate on the name in Wikipedia, as there can be different positions and never a perfect solution - and whatever is done with this article will have repercussions for the Fula language article, about which there is another discussion. One solution is to stay with the tatus quo; another is to pick the solution of a recognized scholar (like Arnott); another is to refer to what bibliographers use, etc. H-W-A at least will give us some expert opinions we probably wouldn't hear right here. --A12n 18:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)