Talk:Gregg Toland
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Generally speaking, a "cameramen" is different from a "cinematographer." The cameraman is the person physically handling the camera while cinematographers don't usually operate the camera themselves. Rather, cinematographers are responsible for the overall design of the visual style. I mention this because I've just edited the term cameraman out of this article, because, more accurately speaking, Toland was a cinematographer. --Jeremy Butler 11:26, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
- That's true enough (and I certainly have no objection to your changes to this article, although I'm thinking of expanding it), although it should be noted that Wikipedia's own page notes the term is a matter of contention for some. Also I believe Toland served as the camera operator for some of his movies (not Kane, though), although I don't have a source handy to confirm it.
--Snarkout 02:50, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Go look at Welles home movie from the early 1930s "Hearts of Age" & his conceptual drawings for the lighting and staging of Mercury Theatre productions like their [then]-contemporary adaptation of Shakespeare’s Julius Ceaser, Kanes visual style is as much his as it is Tolands. --LamontCranston 14:09, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- Because that was Toland's genius -- he helped others get what they wanted. Toland and Welles spent hours in private conference planning Kane's look, and how to get it. Toland was present at the rehearsals and explained to Welles when a staging wouldn't photograph properly, and Welles restaged appropriately (part of Toland's admiration for Welles grew out of the way Welles was able to do this on the spot). Look at the films Toland did with Wyler and then look at Kane. Although it's easy to spot the hand of Toland in both, they're also very different.ubiquity 19:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)ubiquity
Obviously, the dispute whether Toland's role in Kane was more important or as important as Welles' is not over. I have a number of arguments that I think clearly demonstrate that Kane continued Toland's experimentations on Long Voyage Home - and I think that a 25 year old newbie, even though he was one of cinema's unquestionable geniuses, could not know enough about lights or compositing, technically speaking, so as to be able to pull off the overwhelming majority of shots in Kane. I am not a specialist, but I have never heard of Welles' implication on the "technical" aspects of the movie. So I would agree with ubiquity, I think that Welles might well have had unheard of ideas, but the actual solutions or concrete know-how was unquestionnably Toland's. Also, if someone has more info on Best Years of Our Lives, it would fill an unfortunate hole in this article, since Best Years is considered one of Hollywood's most important movies ever - and deep focus cinematography allowed Toland and Wyler to compose several scenes within one frame without any cuts. Benisek00 13:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
