Talk:Hedonism
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The author clearly is not a proponent of Hedonism, and in fact appears to hold it in disdain --User:Prospero
How exactly is hedonism classified under "philosophy of mind"? In a certain sense, all of philosophy is connected to "philosophy of mind", but relating everything to it seems to devalue the category. I believe that hedonism should be strictly excluded. It is simply a matter of ethics. --mporch 23:20, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It is necessary, in this case, to distinguish cyrenaic hedonism from epicurean hedonism in order to more fully flesh out the varieties of ancient hedonistic traditions. Also, more on materialists (communists, objectivists, utilitarianists, etc.). Hedonism may encompass more than just ethics if taken in context to how it is integral to various philosophies and systems. --User:MasonicLamb
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[edit] first paragraph
I'm not an experienced Wikipedia user and I don't know wether my suggestion belongs here in this discussion. But I do not think that the individualistic hedonism is always conflicting with the collective hedonism, since one might get own pleasure by helping other people. I get the impression that the author of the article thinks that they are the opposite of each other, even though the reason that some people act altruistic is that their mind tells them that it is a good thing which means that they get pleasure by doing it.
Pelle
I think one could say most people feel that hedonism involves sexual pleasure and do not know the exact philosophical contours and forms of the concept. Those ignorant of the more complex philosophies of hedonism will likely view hedonism as the pursuit of traditionally pleasurable activities like eating and having sex. Most people would fall into this view. While most forms of hedonism may be non-sexual, the one form that is best known is. Or at least that's how I feel, I'll leave it to someone else to make the descision to edit this page or not. -JZT
[edit] Oyster section
What is up with the oyster section? It seems very out of place. -- Charlie
I think as this article grows (hopefully), this will make more sense. The image of the (happy, simple-minded) oyster was one used by the hedonists themselves (I think it was Mill), to describe the 'ultimate' fulfillment. Of course the oyster is probably not aware of its state, but that didn't prevent those (classic) hedonists from using that example (which might go back to plato,..) Eptalon
[edit] Expert
"This article is in need of attention from an expert on the subject. Please help recruit one, or improve this page yourself if you can." I enjoy life. Want me to? (Just kidding...I think.) :) --ViolinGirl♪ 03:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Gourmet
Should'nt there also be a link to gourmet ?
[edit] References
In regards to this section:
- Some of Sigmund Freud's theories of human motivation have been called psychological hedonism; his "life instinct" is essentially the observation that people will pursue pleasure. However, he introduces extra complexities with various other mechanisms, such as the "death instinct". The fact that he leaves out the instinct to survive as a primary motivator, and that his hypotheses are notoriously invalidated by objective testing, casts doubt on this theory.
Can someone give references please? - taken from 142.103.168.47's misplaced statement on the article on 01:08, 26 April 2006.
[edit] 20th/21st-Century Hedonism & Sexuality, Etc.
The article currently contains the folowing sentences: "Quite a few people equate hedonism with sexuality and having a very loose or liberal view of the morality of sex. As noted above, many (perhaps most) forms of hedonism actually concentrate on spiritual, intellectual, or otherwise non-sexual forms of pleasure. The pursuit of sexual pleasure can certainly be a form of hedonism, but it is not the mainstream one. However, this has become the mainstream use of the word."
However, I think the article as it currently stands dodges the connotation that, at least in English-speaking countries, has become attached to the word. I don't mean a strictly sexual connotation, but more one that, for example, might be alluded to in the pop phrase "sex, drugs & rock'n'roll." People often relate the phrase and the value system to "escapism."
Even though this "sensual and escapist" tendency or value system may not be what has been meant by "hedonism" in philosophical circles through the last several centuries, it is often what people mean by the word now. It's probably what many people have meant by the word for at least 35 or 40 years. So it should be more directly addressed.
There has been an interesting debate between those who espouse some form of hedonism in this sense and those who espouse some opposing philosophy — whether some sort of philosophy of traditionalism, "social responsibility," religiosity, or whatever. To be sure, I don't believe it is the purpose or place of an encyclopedia to decide in favor of any side of a debate, but the debate (in its 21st-Century form) isn't identified well in this article, nor can the critique(s) of the sex, drugs & rock'n'roll approach to living really be brought forward. Article seems incomplete.
Just a thought Joel Russ 04:04, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
In fact, the ancient Greek view of hedonism was of a more spiritualistic nature, a more neutral understanding that saw pursuing pleasure as sometimes good, sometimes bad. However, the Christian era changed that nuance when the Christians began writing about "hedone" as an exclusively bad, corrupt, and inferior philosophy (note: the New Testament writings never uses the word hedone in a positive manner). That Christian era connotation has remained rather firmly entrenched, even to modern society.
Wikifish7 - October 26, 2006
- "the Christian era changed that nuance when the Christians began writing about "hedone" as an exclusively bad, corrupt, and inferior philosophy (note: the New Testament writings never uses the word hedone in a positive manner)."
- What source did you get that from? -Pentecost 23:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The understanding that the New Testament writers never wrote of "hedone" in a positive manner is commonly understood and taught by those who have studied the topic in the Greek N.T. "Hedone" is only found in 5 verses of Scripture: 2 Peter 2:13, James 4:1, 4:3, Titus 3:3, and Luke 8:14. As you can see when you look up these passages for yourself, it is never favorably or fondly accepted by the New Testament authors. For ease of reference, the following two URLs show the results of a Greek Lexicon search for "hedone," giving the same list as discussed above (http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2237 and http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/frequency.cgi?number=2237&book=lu&translation=nsn).
If Dr. Piper has found or quoted any New Testament (Christian-era) passages which speak favorably of "hedone" then I would be most interested in reading about this. To my knowledge, hedonism is not endorsed by Scripture as a godly pursuit. Thank you. Wikifish7 06:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
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- I seem to recall that there is/was(?) a "Playboy Philosophy" developed by Hugh Hefner (publisher of Playboy magazine). I believe he published a book about his philosophy. And that the philosophy started out as pretty much embracing "wine, women, and song" but transitioned into an embrace of "sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll," as time went on and Hefner's tastes and crowd changed.
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- In any case, maybe the "Playboy Philosophy" is the cogent statement of the connotation of "hedonism" brought to mind ofr most people today.
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- Somehow, the article as it stands is still shying away from looking at this modern connotation in any detail. Joel Russ 16:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Other Veiws
I am not an expert on this subject, although it is obvious this article needs overlooking. I can suggest an existing article from Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy plato.stanford.edu/entries/hedonism There is a well established definition on the word Hedonism. Kisida 04:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Hedonism associated to Humanism?
I seem to recall that Hedonism goes hand in hand with humanism, since the pursuit of pleasure is in consecuence, centred on your own self. I think it should be added in a line at the begining.-Pentecost 22:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
