Talk:Jack Off Jill

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Contents 1 Naming convention 2 my ruin 3 gothic? 4 Descendants 5 Duties and Responsibilities 6 Third Opinion

[edit] Naming convention

In this and other articles, the name Jack Off Jill has been edited to Jack off Jill. According to Wikipedia's naming convention for album titles and band names, this is incorrect. Convention states that a preposition in a song or album title would, of course, not be capitalized; however, Jack Off Jill is the name of the group, and neither the title of an album nor of a song. The official policy only specifies that the lack of capitalization applies to titles, not to band names.

Consider this analogy: if my middle name were Off, the fact that the word off is a preposition would have no bearing on how I spelled my name, and I would be free to capitalize it as I saw (or my family had seen) fit. That said: the band, its former members, and their former record labels have consistently capitalized all three words in Jack Off Jill; the Wikipedia entry should do the same. — keepsleeping

Frankly I don't agree, and I think that the distinction between titles and names here is sophistic — but for the moment at least I can't be bothered to do anything about it (I have too many other things to do). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:57, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate your letting the edit stand. My reading of the convention was not an attempt at sophistry; I simply believe, as I wrote earlier, that the Wiki entry for this band should format its name the way the band itself did — whether stylistically correct or not. --keepsleeping (talk) 03:30, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

• • • Proper Name; not format.

This sounds pretentious sycophantic, in the same style as nin and manson articles.

Can they really be considered alt-rock?

They Should considered goth rock/punk, maybe?

[edit] my ruin

perhaps it is worth to tell that Jessicka is the guest-singer at the my ruin cd "A Prayer under Pressure of Violent Anguish" song "Miss Ann Thrope"

kind regards from germany oliver

[edit] gothic?

i dont really think they should be called gothic in this article, they bare no resemblance to "real" goth bands such as Bauhaus, The Cruxshadows, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Bella Morte, etc

i think this should be changed

---

I agree, they are more of a Riot grrl group. The only thing goth about them, is their appearance. Superme 20:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Jessicka stated that they were influenced by bands such as The Cure and Bauhaus and they used to top the Gothic rock and Gothic metal charts on MP3.com. They weren't "pure goth" so to speak but then some would argue the same about The Cruxshadows or Bella Morte. - DNewhall 21:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

True my friend but i dont know if you remember when Radiohead stated they were influenced by the Aphex Twins, it was more or less in the end, Aphex Twins had nothing to do with Radiohead, just because you say your influinced by something dosent mean you actually are...

(sorry for my horrible spelling and grammar, im in a hurry)

71.98.16.172 17:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I put it back to its' normal genre. Sorry. -MysterySkin

[edit] Descendants

Considering that Fodera and Moulder were the only two constants in the band throughout its lifetime, their projects should occupy the top two spots in the Descendants category. Further, including the current project of a person whose sole contribution to the band was playing a single show raises the question of why her project should be prominently billed, while those of far-more-significant contributors Clint Walsh (Tweaker, Gnarls Barkley, and The Motels Featuring Martha Davis), Scott Putesky (Three Ton Gate), Norm Block (Mark Lanegan), and Chris Vrenna (Tweaker, Gnarls Barkley, and numerous production credits) are ignored. Either these should be included (though most are already mentioned in the body of the article, as is the Storer link), or the Storer link should be deleted. Snuppy 17:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duties and Responsibilities

I am trying to show what, in the context of Moulder and Fodera being the only members of JOJ through its tenure, each of them was primarily responsible for bringing to the band. If left in its previous iteration, one might legitimately think that one of them was providing the bulk of the work and the other just riding along. Clearly, this was not the case.

As for this particular quote:

"Obviously you guys know about having SMP in the band, which is awesome because I've been the main music writer this whole time, and now I have another writer," Moulder told MTV News recently. "That takes off a little pressure, and it also adds a whole new element of new directions in music and everything. It's just so good for the band in general to move forward so we have more options and more avenues."

... it's clear that Moulder's duties as main music writer continued after Putesky's departure. I don't see Putesky's name listed as a music writer for the majority of the songs on "Clear Hearts, Grey Flowers", but I do see nine songs of 15 credited to "Jessicka/Moulder". If you can think of a better way to explain the primary workload and creative dynamic of the band, please do so, but eliminating the discussion outright makes this a weaker article. Snuppy 12:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, look, another undiscussed reversion. This is EXACTLY what it says in the liner notes from the JOJ albums. I count Moulder as the sole music writer on 9 of 14 on Sexless, 9 of 15 on CHGF. She is credited with writing on all other tracks. That makes her responsible for "the bulk of the music", or, if you prefer, "the main music writer".

Sexless Demons and Scars

1. "American Made"
2. "Horrible"
3. "My Cat"
4. "Super Sadist"
5. "Devil With the Black Dress On"¹
6. "Girl Scout"¹
7. "Swollen"
8. "Poor Impulse Control"¹
9. "Lollirot"
10. "Covet"¹
11. "Working With Meat"
12. "Cumdumpster"
13. "Everything's Brown"

• Angels Fuck [track 99]¹

All songs by Jessicka/R. Moulder except as noted:
¹Jessicka/R. Moulder/L. Simpson/R. Tucci

Clear Hearts Grey Flowers

1. When I am Queen²
2. Fear of Dying²
3. Nazi Halo
4. Rabbiteen
5. Strawberry Gashes³
6. Author Unknown
7. Vivica
8. Witch Hunt
9. Cinnamon Spider
10. Underjoyed
11. Surgery
12. Star No Star¹
13. Losing his Touch³
14. Clear Hearts Grey Flowers

• Hidden track: Lovesong (The Cure)

All songs by Jessicka/Moulder except as noted:
¹Jessicka/Moulder/SMP
²Jessicka/Moulder/Walsh
³Jessicka/Moulder/Oliver/Walsh

Please provide proof of some sort that Moulder was not the primary music writer - not rumor, innuendo, or unsupported declaration of fact. Please do not force me to seek formal admin help to protect this page from vandalism. Snuppy 13:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I am requesting a third opinion. Snuppy 15:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third Opinion

Glad to see the page temporarily protected to slow down the edit war. Snuppy appears to have provided appropriate verification and sourcing of the material in question. Perhaps there is some preferable phrasing than "bulk of"? Something like, "Although there are exceptions (list a few notable ones), Moulder composed the majority of the band's music, Fodera the lyrics ...".
On another note, edit summaries like "I have no interest in talking to you, thanks!" are not helpful, and I hope that IP 69.230.174.172 (who I assume is also IP 69.239.49.195) will take an interest in the consensus process of Wikipedia -- it is the only way that the encyclopedia works. I will continue to keep the page watchlisted, in the hope that the edit war will go away once the temporary page protection is lifted. -- Pastordavid 23:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)