Talk:Jessica Lynch

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Contents 1 beyond pov 2 Serious POV 3 Irony 4 "Pfc" 5 Source 6 Various Topics 7 Tim Collins 8 Prisoner of War -- Iraqi resistance during her rescue... 9 Topless Photos 10 Removal of voltairenet article 11 Unsourced content 12 middle name? 13 Life outside the war?

[edit] beyond pov

i removed the section labled "differing accounts" and added the sentiment to the section above it. i beleive this portion of the article was beyond editorial and into the realm of deceiptful. apparant syllogisms where used to support a conspiracy theory and it is shameful to have this connected to the name of a soldier. the idea that the mission was staged is false. i know this first hand being that i was in the hospital. perhaps a bigger media hype was made than should have been, but to make the leap from media hype to scandal without factual basis is uncalled for. if you wish to express opinon about the war do it elsewhere. there are many places on the web where you can accuse the government of scandal. when scandal is present i agree with the need. in this case though the accusation is unfounded. although there was "verification" added to this section the source is more than questionable and harldy expert. i do beleive it pertinent to mention the alternate theories and the link section povides several avenues for intersted readers to explore these theories. i beleive assosiating conspiracy theory with this poor girls name is adding insult to injury litteraly. the theory is adaquately described in the new edit without sensationalism

also there where 8 bodies discovered at the hospital i added this to the portion describing the rescue in addition to providing credible verification in the links section Lukebruhns (former army ranger who took part in the operation)11:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serious POV

Wow, this is one of the more POV articles I have read in Wikipedia. It is notionally about Jessica Lynch, but maybe 50% of the text concerns her. The rest is either 'bad war, bad Americans' or character assasination of some guy called Mohammed. One example of the POV - how is it relevant to Lynch that someone asserts that the US Miltary did not offer to compensate an Iraqi hospital for damage caused during her rescue? Editors seem to have dewlt almost lovingly over every slahed sand bed, broken door or offended Iraqi, while dismissing in one sentence the notion that the troops concerned considered that they were undertaking a Prisoner snatch in a war zone.

The war and the US armed forces must be incredibly unpopular if this passes as unbiased in the US. Or is that that editors are attempting to use this article to counter a perceived Government bias? I'm not an American and I live half a world away, so I don't know the answer, but I suspect my remoteness is the reason why I see a lack of balance here that other US-based editors do not.

I can't be bold on this one I'm afraid, because I have no expert knowledge, but I can recognise bias when I read it. For the record, I don't like the war or my own country's involvement in it either - but that's no excuse for polemic. RichardH 13:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irony

Wanna know another irony? Saddam Hussein was a friend of the United States, and actually visited Detroit. He donated money to the local churches (which Middle East oriented of course), and received the key to the city of Detroit.

Presumably, this was back in the days when the Iranians were the bad guys and anyone who opposed them, including Hussein, were the good guys. Osama bin Laden had a similar status with the USA for a while because he was anti-Soviet Afghanistan. Arno

Gosh times, they are a'changing. --PY

Yup, better believe the irony, but Lynch is from a town called Palestine.

Hmmm. On a similar note, there is a town just north of Hobart, Tasmania called Bagdad. There's no h, but it's pronounced the same as Baghdad. So far, no US forces have shown up over there.Arno

This has nothing to do with the article. ThePartyVan 22:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Good you point that out -- we may not have figured it out ourselves! -- Imladros

[edit] "Pfc"

What does "Pfc" stand for? I assume it means "Private first class". This should be explained, preferably by someone who knows for certain (i.e. not me). -- Stephen Gilbert

Good point. I'll take care of it. -- Zoe

Pfc is indeed short for Private First Class. Arno

[edit] Source

[1] is an interesting news item that may prove valuable to the evolution of this article. Kingturtle 04:43 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Various Topics

• Jessica Lynch was compared with Rachel Corrie. These comparisons failed to improve the article, and has thusly been snipped. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, and talk pages are for improving enyclopedia articles, not for going off on wild tangents.

Who was that masked man? -- NetEsq 02:49 Apr 23, 2003 (UTC)

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Bravo. this article is very well done. Kingturtle 02:21 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

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Last I heard 8 of the 9 bodies brought to the U.S.A. were identified as Americans. Was one of them not from her unit? Rmhermen 03:05 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, one was from the 3rd Division Support Battalion. [2] --Minesweeper 01:46 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)

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"Despite early reports, she was said not to have suffered gunshot or stab wounds" is a more accurate account than rmhermen's last edit. See this news source: [3] Kingturtle 03:10 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

This article is more recent. [4] Rmhermen 03:19 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Touche. Kingturtle 03:24 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

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Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, the ubiquitous news reports narrating the story of Mohammed the lawyer and his wife the nurse cannot be characterized as "unconfirmed" or "apocryphal." Dozens of well-respected journalists have met this man and interviewed him. -- NetEsq 20:02 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)

Some references would be nice. I'm not alleging any conspiracy--it's just that he's disappeared and his story hasn't been confirmed by the military. Fog of war and all that. --The Cunctator 23:09 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)

Mohammed's story was originally reported by embedded reporters with the Washington Post and USA Today, and it has been confirmed by various other well-respected journalists from the associated press. Unless some credible source questions these reports, it is absurd to question their authenticity. -- NetEsq 05:33 Apr 12, 2003 (UTC)

I'm not questioning their authenticity, just the authenticity of Mohammed's story. I don't disbelieve that's what he said, just that what he said is necessarily true. --The Cunctator 20:07 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)

Take a look at the initial reports by the embedded reporters, which were in fact confirmed by the military:

He's sort of an inspiration to all of us," said Lt. Col. Rick Long, who hosted the family in his trailer for a dinner of Meals Ready to Eat tonight.

If not for his help, the Marines said, they might never have been able to rescue Lynch. "The information was dead-on," said Col. Bill Durrett, who was helping process their refugee status to keep them safe from reprisals.

(Iraqi Man Risked All to Help Free American Soldier By Peter Baker, Washington Post, April 3, 2003.)

I did. Barring the fact that's not "reports" by "reporters" but "report" by "reporter", I'm similarly inclined to trust the later report:

Mohammed's role hasn't been confirmed by the military.

(Residents Want Iraqi Who Helped Rescue POW Lynch to Visit West Virginia, AP, April 9, 2003.)

I don't blindly question the media, but I don't blindly trust it, either. And the facts that a) later reports state that the military doesn't confirm Mohammed's story and b) the guy has disappeared give reason, imho, to state that there is a plausible possibility that his role was overstated/embellished/misreported. --The Cunctator 21:53 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)

The quotes from Lt. Col. Rick Long and Col. Bill Durrett, who are members of the United States military, were provided by Peter Baker, the embedded reporter from the Washington Post. David J. Lynch of USA today also interviewed Mohammed and filed a separate report. Perhaps FOX had not yet been able to get confirmation from the military, but that hardly gives rise to "plausible doubt." -- NetEsq 22:23 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)

* Iraqi's videotape guided raiders in Lynch's rescue By John J. Lumpkin, Associated Press, April 16, 2003.

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There should definitely be more references to the sources of information in this article. Times of war are times of lies and propaganda, after all. Matthias

There's nothing wrong with citing references. To that end, does anyone know of *ANY* news reports, much less credible ones, that refer to the story of Mohammed the lawyer as being "unconfirmed" -- NetEsq 21:24 Apr 13, 2003 (UTC)?

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This article contains nine external links. That is excessive, especially since they point to news items that say the same thing this article says. Are they meant to be references rather than external links? If they are meant to be references, then they should be in reference format, not external link format. External links are meant more to take users to official sites, sites of experts on an issue, sites that offer different points of view on a contraversial topic. What exist in this article, IMHO, are references. References have a different syntax and format to follow. Kingturtle 06:07 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)

There's no consensus on the role or formatting of external links and references, at least that I'm aware of. That's why I always call the external links section "References and external links". And there are different needs for links on a developing or recent news story than there are for links on a historical topic. --The Cunctator 21:38 Apr 22, 2003 (UTC)

Unlike the excessive multitude of photographs of Rachel Corrie, many of them of questionable copyright. -- Zoe

And another thing . . . Does anyone know who did the makeup for the movie _Chicken Run_? -- NetEsq 23:32 Apr 22, 2003 (UTC)

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May be a small thing but was this really the first rescue of a POW since WW2? If that were true there would have to be no rescues during Vietnam or Korea, which sounds unlikely. Any references? DJ Clayworth 21:05, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, yes. Prior to Lynch's rescue, the last sucessful raid was on the Japanese Cabatuan POW camp in the Phillipines. I don't recall any attempts made during Korea, but camps may have been out of range of US forces. Cabatuan wasnear the end of WWII when the allies were eating up Japanese held teritory at great speed...not so in Korea.

There WAS an attempt to rescue POWs in Viet Nam, but the intel was old and the POWs had been moved several weeks prior to the raid.

What you MAY be thinking of are the numerous rescues of pilots shot down during both wars (particularly Viet Nam), such as Iceal Hambelton (Bat 21)...but those were not the same, as those aircrew were never under the command and control of opposing forces....the definition of a POW. Lynch WAS under the C&C of the Iraqis, meaning she was a POW (in fact, until US forces raided the hospital, her status was unknown, as her body wasn't in the pile the Iraqis filmed, nor was the shows with the others of her company), and thus, her rescue was the first rescue of a POW from behind enemy lines since WWII.

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while U.S. forces were justified in going to the hospital with extreme force

We are not in the business of deciding on or reporting on whether the actions were "justified". DanKeshet

Certainly not w/o detailed explanation. (when i first heard the story, i wondered how many nonmilitary Iraqi got mown off in the rescue of this cute little blonde. Fortunately, not many, since it smells like an April Fool now)

Regarding things like this...why does most WP seem to be quick to bleeve or defend anything the US gov't says, no matter how counterintuitive, lacking in evidence, bathed in counterevidence, and the heap of lies the US gov't has been shown to have kited in the past, long past and short?

When you go into an unknown situation in a war zone, you MUST presume the worst...you don't just walk up, knock on the door, and politely ask for your POW to be returned, particularly ina country where local forces were using civlian buildings as military staging posts (which makes them legitimate targets, by the way)

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now a free citizen and is

"Free" from Iraq is evident from the article; the term for a discharged soldier is "private citizen" but since that's also evident from the article I removed the phrase. - Hephaestos 16:51, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)

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Here's an interesting item:

The Lynches dispelled the reports Jessica suffered amnesia.

"There really wasn't no amnesia problem," Greg Lynch said. "Her

memory is as good as it was when she was at home."

Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32824

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"I am not a hero" she says...but she'll take the $1 million book deal. Kingturtle 16:29, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Let's clarify this...#1 she split the book fee with Bragg, then there are taxes on the remainder, AND starting her pwn charitible fund with the remainder. Couple that with the unknown factor of how much medical care she will need for the rest of her life -- some of which may not be covered by her vet's status -- and taking the book deal was a good call.

[edit] Tim Collins

I'm wondering why there is link to a page about Tim Collins (soldier) which seems completely unrelated to Jessica Lynch except they were both soliders in Iraq.--enceladus 23:13, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Prisoner of War -- Iraqi resistance during her rescue...

Someone using the IP 71.244.108.146 wrote:

These claims have not been substantiated and it is believed that the American forces met with substantial resistance during the rescue.

I challenge them to produce documentation that the rescuers encountered any resistance. -- Geo Swan 20:07, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

You are right. Such a claim, flying in the face of all published evidence, needs some heavy citing. I've removed it until that time. --Yamla 02:38, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I believe the military said numerous times that while there was no resistance at the hospotal itself, there WAS resistance in the immediate area.

[edit] Topless Photos

I've heard on Alex Jones that Jessica Lynch did some topless spreads which I Googled saying there were photos that were pulled. Anybody have any insight?

Speculum

There apparently were candid topless photos taken of Jessica Lynch during a party with other soldiers while she was in basic training or advanced individual training. I remember a news story indicating that these were purchased by Larry Flynt to prevent publication.

--Ehrentitle 12:29, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of voltairenet article

I removed the voltairenet article because, while well written, it seemed that the useful content could simply be incorporated into this wikipedia article. That is, it did not meet the fairly strict criteria for external links. Nevertheless, GeoSwan seems to have more experience on this category of wikipedia article so if you think this is a valuable link, I withdraw my objection. --Yamla 20:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced content

I removed the following from the article: "Though not publicaly, a lot of soldiers hold resentment towards Lynch for what some call stupidy and cowardice. The jam on her rifle was a simple round stuck in the chamber which could have been fixed by pulling back the charging handle and then didnt fix it and refused to fight out of fear. This is stated by herself in a personal times interview. In some circles of the amry there have she is seens as given a hero's status just becuase shes a woman." As it seems to be unsourced and contains a lot of weasel words ("a lot of", "what some call", "In some circles", "is seen as"). Ziggurat 22:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that others in her unit had the exact same problem....and one of her of superiors (Sgt. Dowdy, who died in the Humvee she was in) tried to clear the jam without success. It was a common problem in theater, and not just for the 507th.

• those guys should get better guns

[edit] middle name?

The article clearly states at the beginning that Jessica Lynch's middle name is Dawn, but then goes on to say that she names her daughter Dakota Ann after friend Lori Ann Piestewa, "and all three individuals share the middle name of Ann." Both statements conflict. --Delong71487 05:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Life outside the war?

there is very little info about ther life outside the war. 61.2.67.26 14:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)