Talk:John Gardner (thriller writer)
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Nicely done, MK!Hayford Peirce 21:15, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Article title
I'm far from crazy about the article title, and would change it to John Gardner (Bond author) if the text didn't make it clear the author would be uncomfortable with that designation. But his preference is not relevant; what is relevant is whether he has succeeded in making at least as much of a name for himself in his non-Bond writing. I
- have never heard of "Boysie Oakes" or his post-Bond character,
- respond to "John Gardner" with "there's a Grendel one and a James Bond one; are they two people?", and
- might be able to come up with "Gardner" when asked "who else writes Bond novels?"
I don't know whether i'm typical or not. I'm sure the author or the article is not typical, and unless there are people who could not have written the article but find "(creator of Boysie Oakes)" a useful means of dab, it's a bad title.
I assume the editor chose to append a dab qualifier to the Brit rather than the Yank bcz of the Brit's lesser serious-author rep. I'm not sure whether the Yank's serious rep is greater than the Brit's pop-culture (Bond) one. Might John Gardner (Grendel) be the best means of dab?
--Jerzy(t) 13:09, 2004 Sep 16 (UTC)
- Well, I dunno who or what Grendel is, so that certainly would be useless for me as an article heading. I'm vaguely aware of the fact that Gardner wrote some Bond books but (once again, for me) that was a distinct step down. When I first wrote this article I was just trying to get some way of directing the reader to the Boysie Oakes creator. I didn't know much about WP tricks at the time and today I might have done it differently. Since I used to be a BO fan, and still at least own all the books, I'd prefer that things remain as they are. But if, as you say, the casual reader only knows him as a Bond writer, I suppose I can't argue too much about it, like Doyle wanting to be listed for his books about psychic research, mebbe. Just as long as there are adequate links to Boysie and his creator.... Hayford Peirce 15:39, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Gosh, i managed to be obscure, i think. The answer is "Yes, they are different people"; hence in the reference to Grendel, i was trying to imply the possibility of the Brit becoming just John Gardner, and the Yank becoming John Gardner (Grendel), since he is the author of Grendel, a novel retelling Beowulf from the PoV of the monster.
I don't claim, either, to be an average reader; i don't think Gardner's Grendel is that widely read (i.e., my doing so probably makes me odd), and i had frequent occasion for a while to walk past a display of Gardner's Bond tales (i.e., paying atttention in doing so probably makes me odd).
In any case, i'm not looking for any quick resolution, but rather just wanted to get the question down where others could put in their oar as appropriate.
Tnx --Jerzy(t) 07:42, 2004 Sep 17 (UTC)
- Oh, okay, now I gotcha. I think what you propose is perfect. When I added the (creator of BO) to the John Gardner entry it was just a way of distinguishing them and I couldn't think of any other way to do so. Now it's a situation of creating a new article, I think, or maybe two of them, and moving the original contents of the two old article into them, them setting up Redirects, and then maybe asking that the original articles be deleted. Or so I would imagine. Is this correct? If so, I will be happy to let you do it, hehe.... Best, Hayford Peirce 15:35, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
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- Sticking my oar in -- I really don't like John Gardner (creator of Boysie Oakes) as a dab, and I wouldn't be much happier with John Gardner (James Bond author) or similar; what about something more generic, like John Gardner (thriller writer)? --Paul A 02:12, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- That would be fine by me. As I said above, I think, when I started this article I didn't know much about how to deal with WP subtleties. Today I would have probably done it differently. Since Gardner is obviously more than just a B.O. or Bond writer calling him a thriller writer would be fine. But I leave it to someone else to do the fix-ups and redirects etc.... Hayford Peirce 04:14, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Done. --Paul A 01:52, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Sticking my oar in -- I really don't like John Gardner (creator of Boysie Oakes) as a dab, and I wouldn't be much happier with John Gardner (James Bond author) or similar; what about something more generic, like John Gardner (thriller writer)? --Paul A 02:12, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Looks to me as if you've done a great job on the switcheroo and all the links! It's definitely an improvement....
- I wish that the "fair use" definition is so unclear -- I'd love to scan a B.O. cover or part thereof and stick it in as an illustration, but I get different interpretations from different sycops here.... Hayford Peirce 05:16, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
