Talk:Marilyn Manson (band)

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Article Milestones Date Process Result November 18, 2005 Peer review Reviewed December 6, 2005 Featured article candidate Promoted February 19, 2007 Featured article review Demoted Current Status: Former featured article

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Contents 1 Jennifer Zawaski 2 Let's play a little game 3 Stupid 4 WTF 5 hmmm... 6 Paintings 7 Dita Von Teese 8 Daisy 9 Genre 10 Practicing satanist??? 11 Possible fun 12 Hmmm 13 "Absolutely fantastic". Is that objective? 14 Images 15 Marilyn Manson On The Internet - separate article? 16 Record Label 17 spooky kids = 18 Leno Appearance 19 Marilyn Manson Tag 20 Is Manson a drug user? 21 Early Years timeline error 22 Infobox image 23 Citing books 24 sweet dreams link 25 Requested move 25.1 Survey 25.1.1 Survey - in support of the move 25.1.2 Survey - in opposition to the move 25.2 Discussion 26 Genre 27 Incontinuity 28 Nu metal 29 A note on GA status

[edit] Jennifer Zawaski

"He also takes much of his inspiration from the voluptuous Jennifer Zawaski." What does that even MEAN? Also it got no source. It was put here by: 19:20, 27 March 2007 Mza919 (Talk | contribs) (→Composition and songwriting) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.248.1.11 (talk) 17:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

Whoever posted that obviously has a soft spot for her. :) URFG 16:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)URFG

Yeah whatever:). Now who is that and how is it related to the band? I did a short google and all it came up with was some bodybuilder. I think it should be removed and also please someone tell me what is going on there?

[edit] Let's play a little game

If you were a member of MM, what would your serial killer/sex icon name be? Mine would be Anna Nicole Dahmer. See, it's pretty fun!

[edit] Stupid

im quite sure manson kicking John 5 at Rock Am Ring wasn't part of the stageshow at all. Manson had been treating him like shit for ages.

[edit] WTF

Alright who the hell added the album cover of Eat Me, Drink Me...seriously where the hell are your sources? or did you just shop it or something? because there is no mention of it on the official site... ItsNotLupus 11:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I have removed it and nominated it for deletion. Almost certainly a fake. J Milburn 18:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

kudos to you sir ItsNotLupus 11:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hmmm...

'Mariolyn Manson is a truly intelligent person. Though many have critisized him as "Satanic" "Horrible" And "disturbing". None of these morons have gone so far to look into what they call obscene.' erm...written by a 12 year old? This is certainly not NPOV by any stretch and certainly poor writing. How embarrassing!

[edit] Paintings

I didn't find any reference to his paintings. Should we open a section for it ? --Julien 03:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that's an excellent idea.--Jimmyjrg 03:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

A reference already exists at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Manson_%28person%29#Art_career , where it belongs. This article is for the band, not the man himself. 68.235.174.142 04:09, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I just realised that, it gets confusing sometimes --Jimmyjrg 13:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dita Von Teese

Why is Dita Von Teese completely missing from the article? It seems they married on December 3, 2005 ([1])? Could anybody add more about his personal life? Thanks -- Chris 73 | Talk 10:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I see, it's only about the band. My mistake. -- Chris 73 | Talk 10:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Daisy

Please be aware, for future refrence, Daisy Berkowitz is/has been credited with programming, drums, bass, guitar, and also some lyrics(only from the spooky kids era) his voice is also on My Monkey.

This is undebatable as its in the POAF credits. Gein did do SOME bass but he didnt write too much for Marilyn Manson as he was booted before they could work together more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Synthetic coma (talk • contribs) 07:20, December 16, 2005 (UTC).

Any particular reason, then, that the credits for Portrait read "All bass by Gidget Gein"? --keepsleeping say what 17:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Besides, it's not even an issue, because the article lists each member and his primary instrument. Pogo plays theremin on Portrait; it's not in the list. Manson plays pan flute on Antichrist Superstar and harpsichord on Holy Wood; that's not in the list. Daisy played guitar and, because he was responsible for most of the Spooky Kids-era programming, he's also credited with that. --keepsleeping say what 17:19, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Anyway, to prevent edit warring on this article, I've added the following lines following the personnel list:

Most, if not all, members of the band have contributed performances (either live or in-studio) on instruments other than their primary ones. For instance, Gacy has played theremin and calliope, Manson has played pan flute and harpsichord, and Berkowitz has been credited with bass guitar, drum machines, and vocals.

Further details on these contributions can be found in the individual members' articles and in the articles on the band's albums. --keepsleeping say what 17:47, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Manson is credited with the Pan flute. It meant Gein recorded the album. I guess it depends on how detailed you want it, do you want it about what the person contributed, or what the person played live?

For the record, Id consider that a Primary contribution. It was only Daisy Pogo and Manson for most of the time before getting signed. Bassists (as you can see in the former members) had been in and out.

That's incorrect. Olivia Newton Bundy was only bassist for a brief time period, and then it was Gidget Gein for the next 3-4 years or so, right up until after POAAF was recorded, but before it was released. He wasn't present at the release party. I'd say two bassists over the majority of their history doesn't qualify as "in and out." heavensblade23 23:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

It should be decided which music genre Manson is as it seems every few weeks to get changed between "nu metal" and "alternative", I feel he is either alternative or rock, isn't nu metal more like Linkin Park and even Limp Bizkit?

It's more hard rock than anything. That's the definition I've always used, and that's the definition I've seen used the most. Calling the band nu metal, though, is ridiculous - it displays almost none of the qualities associated with nu metal. ~ Dead 03:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. It's far from being nu metal. Jeremyh 22:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

nah ive always said its shock rock or even glam, as it has alot of influences from these sorts of bands.

Well they have alot of Glam influences, but they're only really "Glam" on Mechanical Animals, the thing with Manson, they play a different variation of music each album, I think the most general term would be "Industrial Rock".... as the core seems to be predominatly Hard rock with some Industrial. - Deathrocker 19:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Industrial Metal, but it is also Industrial Rock. New metal is just wrong, and I dont think alternative is quite right either. -BugsyAbsolute

I think that industrial metal is a more accurate genre to describe his music than industrial rock. DavidJJJ 10:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. Alternative metal, sure, since the band clearly fits the description in that article. But in comparison to "mainstream" industrial rock bands like Nine Inch Nails and KMFDM, you find a lot more elements in common with Marilyn Manson than you would between MM and industrial metal artists like Ministry. They're really more of a hard rock band than a heavy metal band to begin with, but, in the end, the truth is that they draw from many different styles and they shift genres frequently, and that's mentioned in the article. --keepsleeping slack off! 15:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

These genre wars are hard to stop. I went by the categorisation at the All Music Guide and hopefully that quells it a bit. --Reaper X 23:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Industrial rock is more fitting than Industrial metal; some influence is derived from heavy metal (Sabbath, Motley Crue) but as has been mentioned, if you compare them to bands from industrial rock & industrial metal, they are more closely tied to the former. - Deathrocker 17:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Practicing satanist???

Im not sure if this is where I go to ask such questions, but is there any information available regarding Marilyns having been made an official satanic priest by Anton Lavey and his embrace or disancing himself from it after Antons death? Also I have heard that he embraces the republican party but cant find any info to validate this. These are both facts I got off of a political chat room, so I cant verify them, although VH1 DID say that Marylin was given preisthood status by Mr Lavey, they dont speak as to if he is still a member. jake

Manson does say that he was made reverend by AL in his book. I haven't read it in a while, so I can't give more details... --Julien 03:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Manson was made a Reverend by Anton LaVey, but this is a title of respect from the Church of Satan, and can be bestowed upon those who are not members. Manson is not a member of the CoS, nor is he a Priest, he simply was a fan of Anton LaVey's philosophy. Furthermore, Manson never HAS been a member of the CoS. -- CABHAN TALK CONTRIBS 04:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• The above answer is incorrect. "Reverend" is a title which spans several ranks within the CoS, including Priest. Manson is an official member of the CoS, and bears the rank of Priest.

• As for embracing the Republican party, he's made statements in the past that could be taken that way (he supported Bush for President in 2000, but that was largely because Al Gore's running mate was his arch-nemesis Joe Lieberman), plus... well... he's rich. He's also made more recent statements opposing the Bush administration, so his political views are fairly ambiguous. --keepsleeping quit your job! slack off! 04:38, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • • thanks of the info to all who contributedPickelbarrel 21:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I was watching a documentary on Marilyn Manson and it claims that he has said publicly that he was Christian now. Is this true? TearAwayTheFunerealDress 16:23, 9 January 2006 (UTC) If he did say that, it could be contributed to his sense of humour. Otherwise it would remove the point of his philosphies.... can you tell me what doco you were watching?

[edit] Possible fun

Something that I always found interesting, and seems to be a fairly popular myth is the "Marilyn Manson was the actor from the Wonder Years". Perhaps if someone feels up to it they can find a way to incorporate it.[2][3] Arkon 04:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

This is already in the article on Marilyn Manson the person (Brian Warner). This article is about the band. Mdhowe 08:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hmmm

"the last name of a mass murderer or a serial killer"

Same thing isn't it? Also it must be noted, Manson has never named Alice Cooper as an influence.- Deathrocker 05:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Nope. A mass murderer might kill a group of people in the same event. A serial killer reaches their total by killing one or two people at a time in several events over a long period of time. -- Mikeblas 22:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• It should be noted that Charles Manson is not a mass murderer or serial killer, rumored to have killed one person.

'them and their tapes to The Record Plant in Los Angeles, California where Manson peformed anal intercourse on goats and children before and after performing oral sex on himself'...excuse me?

Manson mentions Cooper as an influence in his book.

Where in his book does he mention him as an influence? He may have listened to his music, but does that warrant him as an influence? Not in my book LuciferMorgan 03:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Absolutely fantastic". Is that objective?

Late influences have come from the absolutley fantastic literature and poetry of David Beckham, whose chameleon-like ability to shift from one style to another, replete with a new look and musical philosophy, was a characteristic which would also be frequently ascribed to Marilyn. --Bad carpet 17:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Not really, and I believe it should David Bowie not David Beckham.

[edit] Images

I have just looked throught the Marilyn Manson website and the content is great, however it is ruined by the many images which criss cross over the text, leaving boxes for images left blank while the image that is supposed to be in it sits across the other side of the screen. I am unsure of how to change the images and wont touch them incase it ruins it however this is all that is wrong with the page, once that is sorted it will work perfectly. --Slipdisk 21:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

The images appear okay in my browser (MSIE 6). It's likely the problem is with how your browser is rendering the page. --malber 21:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of images, is the photo of Marilyn Manson at the top of the article public domain? How does Wikipedia deal with image copyright issues?

Thanks

--mike

[edit] Marilyn Manson On The Internet - separate article?

Would it be worth creating a new article on Manson's website and the many updates as it looks like it will become irelevent here after a while and it's getting quite long. sorry i forgot to sign this --Jimmyjrg 10:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea, his website has always been pretty elaborate, Meomega15 23:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Although this is an original idea, I do not think that creating an article about Marilyn Manson's website would be a good idea. Maybe adding a couple of smaller sections to the Internet section could help expand the section in an orderly manner. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 06:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Record Label

Manson is no longer on Nothing and hasn't been for a long time now. This needs to be changed. I don't even think Nothing exists anymore in any real form.

• Still, he was on them for quite some time, so they deserve to be mentioned.

• • Nothing Records is a subsidiary of Interscope Records. When Nothing Records closed, Manson went onto the parent label Interscope. LuciferMorgan 18:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spooky kids =

Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids should be a separate article, White Zombie and Rob Zombie are separate. Though I guess White Zombie had more comercial success, MM & Spooky Kids were charachters of their neighbourhood etc. Cadmiumcandy 14:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I think this is something that should be done, since they've also released several albums under the Spooky Kids name (White Trash, etc) as well as several demo tapes FinalDeathwish 09:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

In his autobiography, Marilyn (the person) says they just shortened the name because no one was using the full one. Same band, shorter name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by To tough to die (talk • contribs) 19:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Leno Appearance

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=60201 - The link has some info, though if you do a search on the site more info will be unearthed. LuciferMorgan 17:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marilyn Manson Tag

Should the Marilyn Manson tag, {{Marilyn Manson}} be applied to previous members pages as well?

• Yes, it's what's generally done with any band Nightmare X 06:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is Manson a drug user?

I know is seems a stupid question, with his lyrics obivisuly referring to drug use, but if he's so open about his drug using, why hasn't be been busted?

He has been in the past. LuciferMorgan 23:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, we all know he at least drinks absinthe at this point, I doubt he's given up drugs, or at least I haven't heard anything of it. As for not being 'busted', it's not like he does them in public, and besides, song lyrics have nothing to do with things like that. Narcotics faerie 01:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Early Years timeline error

i'm a bit confused. The timeline states that everything related to Portrait of an American Family took pllace in 1993, but that the tour in which Sarah Lee Lucus was "fired" (tee hee) was in March of 1995. The article skips a whole year. If I recall correctly, Portrait was released in 1994, so maybe the author(S) simply got confused and wrote the wrong year down? Also, I don't know if the tourmates are right; the opening tour for NIN also had them playing for Hole, which isn't documented, and I can't remember if the proceeding tour was in fact with Danzig and KoRn. (Did they even exist as a band in 1995? I thought they were touring with Monster Voodoo Machine for the Smells Like Children EP...) Finally, I disagree with the wording of the section related to Sarah being released from the band: the way it's written it seems that Manson and Lucas had personal tension between them when in fact all that happened was that the band replaced him with a better drummer and just didn't want to tell him until the tour was over, and the drum set being set on fire was due to an unrelated incident involving someone throwing a bottle onstage.--sfrog 03:35, 26 Nov 2006 (PST)

The album was released in 1994, but recorded in 1993. Also there was personal tension between Manson and Lucas - read Manson's autobiography. (PS - If you have, then I suggest you read it again) LuciferMorgan 00:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox image

It skipped my mind that an infobox image has to be a free one. So if someone could find one of the whole band, that would be great. Stupid little things like infoboxes without images taint Featured Articles. --Reaper X 22:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing books

When citing books, specific page numbers need to be cited on specific inline citations. This article currently does not do that. LuciferMorgan 13:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sweet dreams link

The sweet dreams single link goes to the original eurythmics single.203.206.110.145 16:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The original single has info on the new cover. It seems to be standard for Wikipedia (when Green Day and U2 did their cover of "The Saints are Coming" no new article was made, it was just added to the original article for the Skids' version). to tough to die 21:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] Genre

Marilyn Manson is classified as nu metal on Rockdetector [4]; I think that nu metal should be added to the list of genres. I would consider putting it before the others since I have always known Marilyn Manson as a nu metal artist/band. Now if this causes problems with certain fans, I'm willing to let it slip to the bottom of the list of genres, but I strongly feel that Nu metal should be added there. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 21:40, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm a fairly hardcore Manson fan, and I do not agree with the nu-metal classification. He do not rap, or use turntables in any of his songs. Shock rock/alternative metal has always been my choice of genres for him. Nickoladze 03:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

True, but System of a Down or Soulfly are often labeled nu metal even though they do not use turntables. And Manson does use rap-sounding vocals in some of his songs (This Is The New Hit, for example). Since a reputated source like Rockdetector classifies Manson as nu metal, I think it is legitimate for this genre to be listed in the infobox. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 10:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Why not use a blanket statement like "The band's work is hard to categorize, as their overall sound changes from album to album" or something to that affect? It would probably help settle this issue and hopefully stop the constant arguing that comes up with every Manson album/ single/ new fan who has a different opinion of what each genre technically is.- to tough to die 13:19, 4 February 2007

Well, I wouldn't do that, because first of all I don't agree with the statement, but also because I don't think the genre is controversial/complex enough to add a paragraph describing how the genre is debated. Bands like H.I.M. who have a very disputed and hard-to-categorize style have such paragraphs, which I think is the best way to deal with such a problem. I don't think that this problem is present on this article. We all know approximately what genre Marilyn Manson belongs to. I think simply adding Nu metal in the infobox would be alright. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 20:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay this is the last call... ^^ If anyone has a reasonable reason to tell me why Nu metal shouldn't be on there, may that person say it :) I have a source that has a very good reputation, so I think it should be enough. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 16:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Instead, write up a section for the article about his varying genres, and have the infobox say "Debated", and link to to that section. Nickoladze 04:26, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes I have considered this option. However, I do not think that Manson's genre is that hard to catetgorize. There is no real debate around his musical genre. We pretty much all know that his music is a mix of shock rock and other rock subgenres. Adding nu metal to the list is legitimate because Rockdetector classifies the band as such. Encyclopaedia Metallum does not have Manson in its database because it considers it mallcore (which is a derogatory for nu metal and metalcore). I would also like to say that adding nu metal to the list is by no way an attack on Manson's reputation. The fact that I despise Marilyn Manson does not have anything to do with my actions. I'm not doing this against him (or the article, for that matter), and I am keeping my personal opinion of him aside. I hope you understand. Now could you give me a good reason why nu metal should not be added to the list? Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 09:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Simple, he doesn't use turntables, and he doesn't "rap" (although I guess you could say he has a few influences on of it on his latest album.) Examples of Nu-Metal would be Linkin Park, KoRn, and Limp Bizkit. If you listen to a track by them, then one by Manson, you will see pretty much no similarities. His lastest album, The Golden Age of Grotesque, sounds different because of the addition of John 5, and he brought with him Industrial music influences from his work with KMFDM. Nickoladze 19:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

As I have already said, he does rap in certain songs, notably "This is the new shit". And nu metal bands like System of a Down or Disturbed do not use turntables as well. They are still nu metal. Rockdetector is a recognized website created by a musicologist that classifies most of the rock bands. If such a great source describes Marilyn Manson as nu metal, I think it probably has its place in the infobox. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 20:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think System of a Down nor Disturbed are Nu-Metal. In my mind, Nu-Metal is just a genre used to classify KoRn, Linkin Park, and Limp Bizkit, but then just overused by heavy metal fans as a derogatory term. SoaD doesn't rap, so why are they Nu-Metal? Sure, maybe Marilyn Manson raps in "This is the New Shit", but have you listened to any of his previous album? "The Golden Age of Grotesque" is completely different than all his other works, and each of his other albums differs from each other slightly. Shock Rock and Alternative Rock/Metal are the only genres I believe should be given to Marilyn Manson. Oh and earlier when I said John 5 brought KMFDM influences, I meant Tim Skold, sorry. Nickoladze 23:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Well unfortunately, it isn't about what either of us think, but about what the sources say. Disturbed doesn't rap nor use turntables, but they are still classified as nu metal. And nu metal is not a derogatory term, it's the genre. Mallcore is the derogatory term you're looking for. I am not looking to attack Marilyn Manson's image or reputation by adding nu metal, but I was just fairly surprized when I saw that nu metal wasn't on there. And after quick research, I found out that nu metal is fairly often attributed to MM. I insist to add nu metal to the list. However, if it can make things better, I am willing to leave it at the bottom of the list and/or clarify in the introduction something like: "Marilyn Manson's genre is sometimes disputed: some sources label him as nu metal, but others as alternative" or whatever. But I think that the last proposition would compromise the quality of the introduction... It would be just simpler to add nu metal in the infobox. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 17:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Plus, as Deathrocker clearly pointed out, shock rock is not a musical form. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 17:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright go ahead then, doesn't matter. Nickoladze 18:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your cooperation ^^ Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 18:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Marilyn Manson are no more nu-metal than Nine Inch Nails are... I think its fair to have the genres as "Industrial rock, Alternative rock" and maybe, Hard rock. The only connection they have to nu-metal is time-frame of success; they are not widley or historically regarded as part of that movement. There are numerous genres that the band has experimented with (1970s glam rock for example) that describe their musical characteristics more correctly than "nu-metal".

As mentioned further up on this talkpage[5] there is clearly heavy metal influence in this band's music (and that is already mentioned in the article)... but their own music style is more closely related to those in Industrial rock (KMFDM, Nine Inch Nails) the Reznor connections are obvious (he produced their most famous album) also White is currently playing in NIN.. Skold has played in both KMFDM and Manson; they are interlinked.

The situation of Marilyn Manson's genre in relation to heavy metal, is similar to that of Guns N' Roses, there is some influence from heavy metal; but they also drag more prominent influences from elsewhere making them more closely related to hard rock lineage. - Deathrocker 18:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I would definitely not classify Marilyn Manson as hard rock... Comparing his music to that of AC/DC or Led Zep is (in my opinion) a big stretch... And do you have better sources than Rockdetector that classifies Marilyn Manson as hard rock? Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 18:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

His band was listed in, and he himself made an appearence on the "100 Greatest Artists of Hard Rock" documentary [6]. The 5 hour film also featured appearences from members of KISS, Aerosmith, Queen, Van Halen. - Deathrocker 19:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

If no one else shows any opposition, I guess you could add hard rock. But I still feel that nu metal should be added... Especially with such a reputated source like Rockdetector. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 19:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Rockdetector also list Cradle of Filth as Black metal; if we are going to start listing bands into genre they don't belong, just because of one source. Ignoring the facts of their musical characteristics... then I'm sure I can easily find one where Rage Against The Machine are described as nu-metal and we'll change that one too shall we?[7] - Deathrocker 19:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Well Marilyn Manson is definitely more nu metal than hard rock! I would actually say that Marilyn Manson is mallcore, but since it is a derogatory term, it obviously shouldn't be used in here. As for COF, the genre is debated. I agree that it is not black metal (properly speaking). But I also think that the closest metal genre you can group them with is symphonic black metal. And for RATM, they have a pretty unique style, and it is understandable that the mainstream audience confuses RATM's style with that of other bands/artists they see on the same TV channels or hear on the same radio stations. You can also find sources indicating that Sonata Arctica is death metal and that Slipknot is brutal death metal... Rockdetector on the other hand, does a pretty good job at describing the bands' genres in a concise way. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 20:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Read the article on nu-metal, its cultural origins are stated as the mid-1990s; this band started in 1989. Korn are always stated as the originators of that genre by music critics, they didn't start until four years after Marilyn Manson, and have an entirely different musical sound.

Also for arguments sake, reading nu-metal's musical characteristics.. Rage Against the Machine are linked to nearly all of the ones listed, whereas Marilyn Manson are linked to less than half of them.

On your page you state clearly that you despise the band in question and even deride them as "mallcore" so why try edit an encyclopedic article on them, that is supposed to be neutral? Seems an odd thing to do. - Deathrocker 21:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I put my personal opinions on the side. I'm not trying to make this article less good (if I didn't care about the quality, I would've made a "debated genre" section), but I'm trying to include the genres that are noted by big sources. Rockdetector is a big source. Plus, Wikipedia is editable by everyone (as long as their edits are not ruining the encyclopedia), and I am pretty sure that includes people who are not fond of the subject. If you think I am being unfair and trying to ruin the article, you are making a wrong judgement. Nu metal is by no means a derogatory term and does not ruin the subject's reputation. I have read the article about nu metal. So you would put RATM in nu metal... I say that RATM does not have a specific genre shared by other bands. In the same way that Mr. Bungle or Faith No More doesn't. Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 22:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

RATM, Faith No More, and Marilyn Manson all fit under the alternative metal genre. And, as pointed out, Marilyn Manson's breakthrough predates nu metal's by more than two years. As far as reliable sources, Allmusic uses alternative metal to cover early 90s bands as well as nu metal, but Marilyn Manson was a contemporary of the mid-90s alternative rock scene at its height, so "alternative metal" should be a fine enough labeling. WesleyDodds 12:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh well... I guess adding nu metal is not possible. :) Zouavman Le Zouave _{(Talk to me! • O))))} 09:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incontinuity

The date Tainted Love was released on this page and on the Tainted Love page are different (says here 2002, and 2001 on the other page)

IF it matters whoever reads this could find out which is right, or leave it if both are somehow.

Sorry if I didn't do something right... 64.184.139.58 06:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nu metal

But doesn't Manson have some elements of nu metal in his music, because doesn't he have very few solos in his music, and elements of electronic instrumentation in his music. DavidJJJ 11:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, he's listed as alternative metal by most sources. Nu metal has rapping (see Korn, Limp Bizkit or Slipknot), which is absent in Manson's work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.217.37.15 (talk • contribs).

[edit] A note on GA status

I see that this article was at one time a Featured article or FA candidate. However, the article is not listed as a Good Article . As part of the Rock music WikiProject, it is suggested that an article achieve Good Article (GA) status before having it's candidacy re-newed. So be sure that points from any previous Features article candidate (FAC) archives and peer reviews are taken and applied to the article, and shoot for a GA nomination. Good luck! --Reaper X 22:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)