Talk:Marilyn Monroe

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• talk page archive

Contents 1 "Celebrity Morgue" 2 Vandlism on in Early Years Section 3 Orphanage Inconsistency 4 the tape 5 Article improvement 6 Anomaly 7 Image Gallery 8 Easy way to shorten this article 9 RFK 10 The DiMaggio Wedding 11 Her mockery 12 Laurel Awards 13 Name 14 death 15 a person who died just like monroe 16 "Most famous" 17 Crypt picture 18 Comedic skills & witty lines 19 Superfluous links 20 DAUGHTER?? 21 Cleaning 22 Possible vandalism? 23 Citation Tag Removed 24 Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe 25 First nude scene by a major actress? 26 Marilyn Monroe's dress size 27 "prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery" 28 New Info on Monroe's Death? 29 June DiMaggio is not who she claims she is! 30 Opening Picture 31 Message for PainMan / for your consideration: 32 Opening paragraph 33 So I'm doing a speech on Marilyn Monroe... 34 Protection's not working? 35 Alleged Abortions 36 Dress Size? 37 Anna Nicole Smith... 38 Very pink 39 early years 40 Cursum Perficio 41 Bridgette Bardot 42 Marilyn Manson 43 Semi-protection 44 Death

[edit] "Celebrity Morgue"

A possible inclusion for the article: [1] --AWF

[edit] Vandlism on in Early Years Section

First line: "Marilyn Monroe murdered Elvis Presley in his home. She slept with him, and soon found out he was married, so she killed himm while having sex in the bathroom."

Yeesh. Vandalism is bad enough, but this isn't even remotely funny or intelligent. --AWF

[edit] Orphanage Inconsistency

Guys, there is a major paradox in her early life. It says that she was sent to orphangages in LA when the Goddard's moved east and that she was sexually abused at the orphanages. Then it says she was with the Goddard's at the time she met James Dougherty (check out James Dougherty, it says the same). So which was it? Did she meet James so she wouldn't have to go to the orphanages, or was she already in the orphanages? CHB 15:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the tape

• Marilyn Monroe, American actress, singer, sex symbol, had at least one sexual experience with another woman, as quoted from tapes to her psycologist that have since been released to the public.

I removed this from the [[List of famous gay,--70.135.3.145 15:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC) lesbian or bisexual people]] because of a criteria on that article which requires that anyone listed there must have a reference to sexual orientation on their biography page. One reason is so that editors familiar with the subject can evaluate the claim. Is the tape considered a reliable source? Should this be added here too? -Willmcw 08:13, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of Tapes, there are copy of tapes available and all the legal docs from the clerk of courts on Barbara Monroe, the woman who has legal and federal documents providing a large amount of information proving her blood line. It's rummorred that she also has a tape recording of the actual social security call, along with phone records, and documentation mailed to her from them in post marked packaging. Does anyone know where I can actually get my hands on this stuff, short of going county to county.

i was just thinking about how i read in the atlantic magazine a few months ago about that. yes, it's a reliable source and i think it should be included. Joeyramoney 23:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article improvement

I have just polished the language style up to (not including) the death to try and make it slightly more encyclopedia-like rather than biographical. I hope it's a little bit of an improvement. Arnie587 01:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Anomaly

The article contains a non-sensical couple of sentences in the 6th paragraph of the marriage section:

On February 4, 1961, she was admitted by her then-psychiatrist into Manhattan's Payne-Whitney Clinic, reportedly placed in the ward for the most seriously disturbed. He got her out six days later, and took her to the Payne Whitney Psychiatric Clinic at New York Presbyterian Hospital

Does anyone have the necessary information to correct this? Arnie587 01:12, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image Gallery

As a previous poster commented, this article has a goofy number of images. The following two overlap so I'm moving them here in accordance with Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Image_queuing. --squirrel 20:41, 19 October 2005 (UTC) [[Image:AllAboutEve.jpeg|thumb|left|210px|On set for All About Eve]] [[Image:DBTK09.jpg|thumb|left|210px|A screenshot from Don't Bother to Knock]]

• On a similar note, galleries of fair use images are not allowed, because all fair use images are supposed to be referred to from the text itself. See Wikipedia:Fair use for fair use guidelines. --Fastfission 03:15, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I can't believe that folks don't know what Monroe looks like, so unless we're actually commenting on the photos themselves I don't see any reason for filling the article with images. -Willmcw 04:04, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Given that her image is such an integral part of what she represents to the culture, an image gallery is entirely appropriate. The fair use guidelines are beyond my understanding at this time, but need to be followed. The article was better with the image gallery. This is not a paper encyclopedia and we are not in any way restricted to text only. The images used were iconic images entirely appropriate and they should be put back.—Gaff ^ταλκ 05:53, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
      • The images are all private property, and posting them here violates the copyrights of the owners. In certain special circumstances an exception is allowed in the copyright law, "fair use", but that exception mostly pertains only when we are discussing the photos themselves, rather than just the subject of the photos. So if we offered criticism of the photos such as talking about their lighting and composition then we'd be justified in using them. However doing so would violate Wikipedia's rule against original research and other aspects of what Wikipedia is not. If you can find any public domain photos, then there'd be less of a reason to exclude them. -Willmcw 05:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Easy way to shorten this article

Could someone move the whole Quotations section into Wikiquote to shorten this article? Yoninah 21:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

If it hasn't already been done by the time I reach it during my gradual copyedit of the article, I'll do so.

Best wishes,  David Kernow 06:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RFK

There is not a single credentialed historian that I have seen -- critical or supportive -- who believes MM and RFK had an affair. There are critical and supportive historians who refute this, pointing to J.E. Hoover's desire to have dirt on RFK and the fact that the younger Kennedy was morally clean. This in fact was a major frustration for JEH.

Who are you? When did you write this? Achilles2006 05:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The DiMaggio Wedding

• Did you know that Monroe married Joe DiMaggio on my 2nd birthday? -Kathywimmer 08:41, January 2, 2006 (UTC)

• When told about team-mate Joe DiMaggio's intention to marry Marilyn Monroe, the legendary New York Yankees catcher Yogi Berra supposedly remarked, "I don't know if it's good for baseball, but it sure beats the hell out of rooming with Phil Rizzuto". From "The Boxing Register, A Who's Who of Sports Champions" by Tom Weir. Guy 20:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Her mockery

She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He is a preacher and Evangelist and he drives expensive cars and has a huge expensive house that God paid for and the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.

After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: "I don't need YOUR Jesus"

A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.

Correction. A week later, she was found dead in her house.

So, I'm confused. Does this mean she was killed by God. The same one that paid for Billy Graham's house?Rossrs 01:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Laurel Awards

Is it really necessary to include the rather insignificant Laurel Award rankings in the "Awards and Nominations" section? Practically every A-list star got a Laurel nod back then. Their inclusion only makes the list heavier and more blurry. --Downtownstar 15:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Since nobody seems to oppose, I'm going to erase the Laurel Awards.--Downtownstar 06:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

In the first sentence, the article states she was born Norma Jeane Mortensen, and then in the next sentence, states that she was born Norma Jeane Baker. Further in the article, it mentions some disagreement between her family about what to name her. I don't know which should be left, so if anyone knows please correct. Sylvea

Done it. Her legal name was Mortensen. Sometimes the name shown on a baptism certificate is different from the legal name, and that's what happened here. But baptism certificates are church documents, not legal documents. They do not have the effect of changing the person's legal name. JackofOz 22:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Further in the article it states that she legally changed her name to Marilyn Monroe. Why is her birth name shown first?

This article follows the manual of style for biogrpahies. Birth name should appear first in the article, followed closely by the name which the subject is commonly known. Thanks. Yankees76 03:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

If so, then why won't the article about Freddie Mercury (and million others) follow this rule? And in case of Marlyn Monroe it's not the name she's known as, it's her LEGAL name. It's extremely politically incorrect and offensive to the person to treat his or her birth name as the main name if that person has legally changed it to something new. Northern 23:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, Since nobody seems to reply I'm changing it to Marilyn Monroe since that was her legal name at the time of her death.

Just because another article doesn't follow the rule, does not mean it's correct. A more appropriate course of action would be to actually consult the manual of style for biographies. The consensus of many editors formed the conventions described there, and Wikipedia articles should heed those guidelines. I've reverted your edits and made changes to more closely match WP:MOSBIO (using the Boris Karloff example). I've also removed her from the category "People known by pseudonyms". In the future, I would suggest that you don't assume that because other editors do not act in line with your own schedule that it gives you an open door to make whatever changes you wish - as other editors might mistake it for POV pushing or vandalism. Yankees76 03:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

First calm down. I need no suggestions from random people on the Internet.
I have never seen anything like that in any manual. If it's a PSEUDONYM, then yes but IT WAS HER LEGAL NAME. She has legally changed her name. If Joe Jonson has changed his name to Mike Miller than you can't refer to him as Joe Jonson because it's no longer his name. You can of course mention that it was his birth name but he is NO longer Joe and you can't call him this way.
If it's a nickname, then yeah. If it's a name a person picked just as a stage name such as Eminem or Gorkiy (a Russian writer), then of course it's just a pseudonym. But things are different if one has legally changed his/her name. I'll talk to moderators about it. What YOU'RE doing might as well be viewed as vandalism.
P.S I think this sentence is the one that confused you: "For people who are best known by a pseudonym, the birth name should usually appear first in the article, followed closely by the pseudonym."
If one legally changes his/her name, then the new name is not a pseudonym. It's a legal name. It's not covered by the manual
Oh, and yes I do have the right to change anything I want. I'm not vandalizing but contributing. I found something that looked like a mistake to me. How else am I, as a Wikipedian, supposed to react?
Ohh another P.S: read carefully the manual:
In some cases, subjects have changed their names at some point after birth. In these cases the birth name should be given as well:
William Jefferson Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe III on August 19, 1946) …
Northern 09:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

So, you won't stop reversing, ah? Ok.

It looks like someone else did, so it appears your interpretation is up for debate. Also, drop the hostile tone and assume good faith when dealing with other editors. Putting in a vandalism complaint in WP:AIV after barely discussng your edits and imposing time limits on replies is extremely poor Wikiquette on your part. Yankees76 15:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I felt that you were being hostile as well. Happens a lot on Wikipedia
Northern 21:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hardly an excuse. And if you felt I was hostile - why put in a vandalism complaint? That makes no sense. Yankees76 03:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I first reverted the article from Marilyn Monroe to Norma Jeane Mortenson. The feedback I got was furious. (See my personal talk page.)

And now that I'm doing the exact opposite, I'm once again doing it wrong?

Come now, people - make up your mind. --Downtownstar 21:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Partly my fault. I assumed that Marilyn Monroe was a pseudonym (as this article was in the People known by pseudonyms category). Northern is correct in this instance, if as he claims, Marilyn Monroe legally changed her name in 1956 - I've tagged that aspect of article with a citation needed tag, as really it should be sourced. Yankees76 03:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Keep it Marilyn Monroe. The manual is clear about it. Northern 21:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The manual is also clear about the fact that one should always, I repeat: always -

sign their comments.--Downtownstar 00:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Bah. How exactly is that related to this talk or article? (Not that I don't sign mine) Northern 03:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It's got everything to do with the article. Since you've obviously read the manual, you

should know. Now where's the signature?--Downtownstar 09:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] death

do you know that she commtitted suicide, but then as she felt hewrslef going under, she made a telephone call to someone because she changed her mind, but he didnt come, and instead call her psychiatrist, who then call the housekeeper to check on her. At about 3 am in the morining, she was found dead with her hand on the phone. the point is that she decided to commit suicide by taking and overdose of sleeping pills, but chnaged her mind and called a few people, who i forgot what their names were, but no one came and it was too late.

she was going through many bad things that time, and she had recently been fired, and she was aging... It is just very sad, because all those people who took her as an empty headed blonde, and all those people who tried to replace her.. she showed them.

When interviewed, all the women said that if they knew she was going to die, they would never have made any comments about her. she was also upset because she wanted children very badly, but she had many miscarriages.

I don't think the cause her death has been verified yet; no one's exactly sure. Remember to sign you posts, please. Snowonster 02:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

wow I didn't know people freaked out this much about OPINIONS.  :D MUUUAHHH!

[edit] a person who died just like monroe

DOROTHY DANDRIDGE. research her and read her biography on wikipedia marilyn monroe did not die because of suicide it was proven in her autopsy (before it "disappared") that no pills were taken it showed in the documents that were saved from the autopsy that a yellowish lining wasnt in her stomach as it should've been if she overdosed on the pills they say she did(or any other medications)the autospy didn't get finished to find much of anu thing else. The only thing that was found out of the ordinary before the autopsy was stolen was that her colon was discolored... So dont ever say she died from an overdose of pills I've read way to many books and met way to many people for you to put her down like that, yes she was depressed at that time but she DIDN'T DO THAT she had been murdered (it wasnt an accident either) she had been moved and placed back on her bed ( when they found her, (yes her hand was on the phone) but she was also found laying straight" as a stick" (if you will)so you give me more evidence that she commited suicide and i'll look at it from your point of view.

I also don't believe that Marylin Monroe might not have died from a drug overdose, but it IS possible. Nobody knows for sure and nobody will EVER find out. Its one of the saddest mysteries.

[edit] "Most famous"

Is she the most famous? She has been called that... but I think we could use to temper the language... (not sure for how many versions it has been that way...) gren グレン 18:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

What method should we use? "Marilyn Monroe has been cited as one of the most famous actresses of the twentieth-century"? —Eternal Equinox | talk 19:19, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It really is a matter of opinion, whichever way you look at it. I fixed the sentence a little, now it simply states she's one of the most famous.--Downtownstar 16:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, somebody keeps reverting the sentences back so that she's called "the most famous" and "the most bankable" star of all-time. These superlatives are clearly POV and there's absolutely no evidence to back up the "most bankable" claim. I'm not fixing them anymore because I don't want a war, but don't you think the expressions are rather unencyclopedic?--Downtownstar 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

They are completely unencyclopedic, completely inappropriate and inaccurate. I've reverted. For one thing she never became "the most bankable" - see the Quigley poll, regarded as one of the most credible barometers of an actor's success - [2] and you'll see Monroe never topped the list of top 10 bankable stars although she made the top 10 in 1953, 1954 and 1958.. Not all of her films were profitable, although many of them were. Much of Monroe's fame and certainly a large part of her iconic status have developed in the years since her death. This page is like many that become the domain of overzealous fans who should carefully read WP:POV and WP:NPOV. Rossrs 21:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

They have a point, though. She's almost always referred to as the most famous... Snowonster 02:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crypt picture

I uploaded a picture of the crypt where Marylin Monroe is buried. I linked to it from the Death of Marilyn Monroe article, but not sure if it should show up in htis article. Maybe if a few more words are added here about where she is buried. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comedic skills & witty lines

An observation from the few Monroe films I've seen - she seemed to have a consistent style of wit and brilliant delivery, from as early as All About Eve - but I'm wondering who wrote the lines? Did she have any input? Or did she get typecast, with writers continuing to write the same kinds of parts to play, and the same style of witty dialogue? I'm also thinking of her comment about her playboy shoot - "It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on," which I had assumed she came up with herself, though I don't know. Anyone know more about this? --Singkong2005 14:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Surely you jest? smile. You asked who wrote the lines... Well, writers do. Snappy wit and wise-cracks was common in Hollywood long before Marilyn - take a look at some "pre-codes", "Stage Door," or the euphemisms in a Busby Berkeley movie like "Footlight Parade". A writer might tailor a part for someone, and after Marilyn had achieved a certain level of acclaim they would have tailored a part for her, but the credit generally goes to great writers like Mankiewicz and Wilder. Look at a great movie like "A Letter to Three Wives", "Midnight," "The Apartment" - movies which Marilyn was not involved with. The dialogue is sparkling. 67.10.133.121 22:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

It's usually the writers...but sometimes it's the actors who put their own touch on a movie with their own on-the-moment lines. Snowonster 02:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Superfluous links

Do the words "mental hospital", "modelling agency" and other generic nouns really need to be linked? This article is in need of more serious quality control than this, but taking out the links to non-encyclopedaic articles would at least be a start.

Please remember to sign your posts, please. Snowonster 02:29, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DAUGHTER??

Did Mariyln Monroe have a daughter or not??? Can someone please add something here??

I dont think she had a daughter... they would've revealed themself by now if she did...

No, Marilyn never had a child. She had one ectopic pregnancy that had to be ended to save her life, and at least two other miscarriages. This is because she suffered the disease endometriosis, which greatly affected her life. This disease would explain her fatigue, the pain would explain her absences from work (as with any disease, endo often causes women to be unable to work), her addiction to painkillers, it could have added to her depression. It seems odd to me that it doesn't get commented on much by biographers when it clearly caused great devastation to her life. I believe she tried all the medical treatments at the time, including surgery, but none were successful. They barely understand the disease today so it must have been much worse in the 50s. LouiseCooke

• It's much easier to dismiss it as her being unreliable etc. Although with the number of pro-MM documentaries produced ,you'd think they would mention this more? Dollvalley 15:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning

I thoroughly edited the article. Hopefully it's a little less POV now. Let me know how I did and please don't hesitate working on it as well. --Downtownstar 22:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I wish Marilyn would have had a daughter because I'm sure she would have been GORGEOUS---Emily Ann---Wisconsin.

[edit] Possible vandalism?

From the article: Talked a club owner into booking Ella Fitzgerald [19];

the url for [19] is "http://www.findadeath.com/" which I'm guessing is vandalism. But I don't know the original url....

How is that vandalism? It's a legitimate URL.

P.S. Please sign your comments, thank you.--Downtownstar 20:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Coincidentally, I just happened to add the Ella reference (under Stardom), which cites Wikiquote. This is a well-known citation and should be non-controversial. If it's removed, I think we should call it vandalism. J M Rice 03:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Tag Removed

I removed the citation tag because I don't see the article to be in dire need of citations. Wikipedia policy is that citations are needed for controversial assertions. I didn't notice anything egregious in that respect. I suggest that, if others think citations are needed, it would be better, in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines, to use specific ^{[citation needed]} tags inside the article. Frankly, I think this article is ready for at least GA status. — J M Rice 03:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe

We wish to advise everyone that we (the Living Trust Network) have a copy of Marilyn Monroe's Last Will and Testament posted on our website, which we believe is of interest to anyone seeking information about the life of Marilyn Monroe. We have also discussed our desire to post a link to Marilyn Monroe's Last Will and Testament with Wikipedia administrators [See User talk:Livingtrust], either under "references" or "external links." Last Will and Testament of Marilyn Monroe. Wikipedia does not object to the link but has requested that we not put the link up ourselves since we are a commercial website. Instead, it has requested that we make it known that the Last Will and Testament is available, and anyone who wishes to add the link to the "reference" section or the "external links" section may do so. So, we solicite your help in adding the link set forth above. Thanks. Livingtrust 03:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the link, because it was added by an anonymous IP adding multiple links to your site. You need to have a consensus here instead. Wmahan. 05:26, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First nude scene by a major actress?

I'm sure that can't be true. What about Hedy Lamarr in Ecstasy? This seems doubtful even if it is restricted to American films and actresses, though I don't have an example. Clarityfiend 21:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Clarity, you're correct. Hedy Lamarr appeared nude in that film a few decades before Marilyn appeared in the buff. 67.10.133.121 22:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You are both ignoring the fact that Hedy Lamarr was not a major star at the time she appeared nude. Her appearance only came to light after she made it big - much as Monroe's nude calendar would be revived in 1953. The statement is correct - Monroe would have been the first major American star with a nude scene.

I find this bit of trivia a bit odd. She would have never been seen nude in the movie, especially since it was a family comedy. She swam in the pool nude, and the surface of the water was very wavy so you can hardly see anything, at least in the surviving shots. Also, since you mention Hedy Lamarr, what about Maureen O'Sullavan (another non-major actress, ok)in the Tarzan movie? She swan underwater, the shot was underwater, and her breasts are VERY visible...Dollvalley 15:09, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I love how she pretty much set the trend for the first nude scence. Nobody could have done it as well as she did. She's a total inspiration---EA--WI

[edit] Marilyn Monroe's dress size

Sigh, again, this article is perpetuating an inaccuracy. Why do people go back and forth on this issue? Today, a size 5 dress is not the same as it was in Marilyn's time. A five would be considered a medium, then, but would be considered a small size today: the actual measurements went up. According to Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm), which tracked down her measurements, Marilyn might have been a size 12, perhaps a size 10 by today's markers. They also point out, as this article does not, that Marilyn's weight cycled due to factors such as pregnancy, weight gain and loss. Leaving the "5" in without noting that sizes have gotten larger while the numbers have stayed the same is inaccurate. 67.10.133.121 22:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery"

There may be some unnecessary obfuscation in the sentence that reads "Hyde also arranged for her to have plastic surgery on her nose and chin, adding that to prior-made teeth cosmetic surgery." Would it be better to revise the latter bit to something like, "...her nose and chin. (Monroe had undergone cosmetic dentistry at a prior time.)"? Robert K S 19:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Info on Monroe's Death?

I came across this story quite accidentally. I've heard of this outlet but I can't judge it's credibility because I don't know much about it.

Obviously, one story from an unproven (at least to me) outlet wouldn't seem to merit an edit of the article. However, the information shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, esp since it quotes the man who was LA's DA at the time of her death as calling for a re-opening of the investigation.

URL: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52493

I believe the following excerpt can be used under the Fair Use doctrine of US law...

WND Exclusive BLONDE BOMBSHELL Stunning new revelations: Marilyn Monroe murdered June DiMaggio breaks long silence on details surrounding mysterious death of her friend Posted: October 18, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Marilyn Monroe was talking on the telephone to Louise DiMaggio when she was murdered and was able to utter the name of her attacker before her death, according to a new book by DiMaggio's niece and Monroe confidante June DiMaggio.

In "Marilyn, Joe & Me," 44 years after the Hollywood superstar's mysterious death, which was ruled a suicide, June DiMaggio, friend of Marilyn and niece of New York Yankee Hall of Famer Joe DiMaggio, she discloses that her mother was speaking long distance with Marilyn Monroe when the actress was killed. DiMaggio says her mother overheard Monroe blurt out the name or names of her killer [sic] as they stormed into her bedroom.

_______________________________________

[edit] June DiMaggio is not who she claims she is!

June "DiMaggio" never existed--her real name is June E. Elpine ... PR Inside (Pressemitteilung) - Wien,Austria Last year this woman came out of nowhere and claimed to have been Marilyn Monroe's friend for eleven years. Nobody had ever heard ...

http://www.pr-inside.com/june-dimaggio-never-existed-her-real-name-is-june-e-elpine-she-never-met-marilyn-monroe-claims-r25776.htm

Should more evidence come forth, especially from more generally accepted sources (e.g. the AP or a reputable historian), then a re-write would have to be considered.

Until then I leave this for the perusal of the interested.

PainMan 14:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Picture

Come on you can do better. A picture of a bug-eyed Marilyn on the phone is not the right picture to start off the Wiki article on this cultural icon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lester113 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Well, it has to be a public domain image, so that immediately limits the candidates. Have a look at Wikipedia's collection of Marilyn Monroe public domain images and see what we currently have to work with. If you see anything you like then go ahead and change it, but it's a pretty sorry collection. Don't forget that you are a Wikipedia editor yourself, so you are a part of the "you" who "can do better". If you can find a really good public domain image to use, it would be welcome. Rossrs 10:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

So let me see if I understand this. I have the power to...."edit"... Wikipedia articles???? Well gosh darn I feel like like Newton under the apple tree!!

Call me crazy but I just thought it might be some what presumptuous of me to start editing an article that has had some dedicated editors that have devoted some real time to this article. I just want to make this article better. But thank you for telling me I am a Wikipedia editor & I have the power to, "do better" all by my self.

The black and white opening pic. the other day was one of the best on here. Whoever keeps changing it...can you please stop. Like the perons above said it is not the right picture to start her pge with.

I posted a new photo. It meets the guidelines. NYKenny 15:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Message for PainMan / for your consideration:

Scott, I tried to email you many times, but the emails are bouncing back. Are you okay?! I am posting some very important information that hopefully will be added in the appropriate way by some caring Marilyn Monroe fan into the main page. I tried to add this before to the main page about Marilyn Monroe--but some vicious individual just erased it without a comment. The Monroe history has moved way beyond the photographers lawsuit. Please edit and take whatever is appropriate for this forum and site. The biggest deal in Marilyn Monroe history right now is the fraud that is happening. If on eBay or live auctions; or through a fraudulent exhibit that almost took off to tour the world fro twelve years. Please work this piece of information into the main page. People need to be warned as well as informed and updated. I understand that this is a discussion board, so please, would anybody spend a moment to add this officially to the Aftermath section. Cause that is where it belongs. Happy Holidays and thank you.

Mark Roesler named as one of the defendants in the Queen Mary exhibit class action lawsuit

Mark Roesler is one of the three defendants that have been named in the class action lawsuit, which was filed on May 26, 2006, by plaintiffs Ernest W. Cunningham and Emily Sadjady, both Los Angeles, CA residents.[3]

The lawsuit was also filed against Robert W. Otto from Chicago, IL, and the Queen Mary corporation, which presented the now stopped 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit,' which opened its doors to the public at Mark Roesler's own office building in Indianapolis in December of 2004. The admission fee was $25.[4]

The lawsuit was filed in order to get the paying visitors their money back. The admission fee in Long Beach, CA was $22.95. The exhibit stayed for seven months and made an estimated $1.5 million in admission fees alone.

While trying to be reached for several interviews in February, 2006; after the release of actor and Marilyn Monroe memorabilia collector Mark Bellinghaus' blog article[5], which also named Mark Roesler, the lawyer did never state anything in public about his involvement into the exhibition frauds in two different American cities and states.[6]

The majority of the Marilyn Monroe memorabilia on display, the items that were claimed to originate from the legend herself, were found to be fraudulent by Mark Bellinghaus, the world's leading Marilyn Monroe expert.[7]

The first item named in the lawsuit describes a plastic set of hair curlers made by Clairol. This item was produced in 1974. Marilyn Monroe died in 1962. [8]

The opening of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit' was the media spectacle of the year. Every Los Angeles news station was present, everyone wanted to interview the leading people involved in this spectacle. To see and hear Robert Otto, Mark Roesler's partner in this exhibit, and June DiMaggio, who served as authenticity for over 90% of the fake items, watch the video option.[9]

The hair rollers originated, like most of the exhibtion fakes from a woman that appreared out of nowhere, as she never was mentioned in any literature about Marilyn Monroe, or Joe DiMaggio. June Alpino aka June 'DiMaggio' served as authenticity for the fake Otto collection. Due to her advanced age she was spared from being part of the lawsuit. She is 83 years of age, not 78, as she claims in her book. She was 19 years when her mother married Tom DiMaggio, not 14 as she wants the reader to believe. There is no indication or proof, that June Alpino was ever legally adopted. She named herself 'DiMaggio' in the mid 1950s.

Mark Roesler is still standing behind June Alpino aka June 'DiMaggio's' book. [10]

He still can be seen on his website, talking in an interview to all of the main characters involved. [11]The show is dated December 9, 2005. "Contest Rules" to win a free ticket for 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit'; Mark Roesler's owned CMG is also named in this listing. [12]

In an interview for the Los Angeles Times, Mr. Mark Roesler appraised the value of the now sued exhibition.

He also insulted fans and collectors from around the world. People who would buy Marilyn Monroe items, that have been licensed by his own company, CMG Worldwide.

The Washington Post portrayed former Marilyn Monroe estate lawyer Roger Richman and Mark Roesler in an interview from December 7, 2004.[13]

He insulted people who would buy Marilyn Monroe items, that have been licensed by his own company, CMG Worldwide.

Mark Roesler also acted as one of the major sponsors of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit.'[14]

In this interview, conducted by staff writer Robert W. Welkos, there is also evidence, that the Hollywood Museum rejected the Otto / Roesler exhibit in early 2005. Mr. Roesler didn't give up, after learning how many fakes were in Mr. Otto's collection. There were several claimed pairs of shoes of Marilyn Monroe, all of them in different shoe sizes. A claimed original USO card from Marilyn Monroe turned out to be a cheap photo copy.

There were interviews shown on Mark Roesler's website which had Robert Otto showing parts of his collection and creating one story after the next, attached to each item. Mark Roesler would ask numerous times about the value of different items. Those interviews were pulled off www.markroesler.com, after Mark Bellinghaus published his first blog article on blogcritics.org. The Mark Roesler owned www.MarilynMonroe.com disconnected itself fast from ties to "Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit," as it was dedicating a large space on that website to the fraudulent exhibit. Marilyn authority Mark Bellinghaus exposed his findings in his second article which explained the ties between Mark Roesler and Robert Otto.[15]

For insurance purposes, the list of items was investigated right after the lawsuit was filed. The plastic hair curlers from 1974 were insured for $300,000.00. Collector Mark Bellinghaus bought the same model for $7.99 on eBay after the original was pulled from the running exhibit in March, 2006 and disappeared for good after being exposed in numerous Los Angeles publications.[16]

This item will be of high interest in the class action lawsuit which will take place on May 7, 2007 in Los Angeles, Ca.[17]

Anna Strasberg, the owner of the estate of Marilyn Monroe still has not stated anything in regards to the Marilyn Monroe exhibition fraud, but she most certainly received parts of the admission money.

On April 10, 2006, a Wall Street Journal article, by staff writer Nathan Koppel mentions her as taking full charge of the estate of Marilyn Monroe.

"Anna thinks about and handles" Ms. Monroe's image "from the moment she wakes up," says William Wegner, her attorney.[18]

In order to remove any doubts about the exhibit, The Los Angeles Times, unknowingly, delivered the strongest evidence against Mark Roesler. On March 23, 2006, Robert W. Welkos printed an appraisal statement of the lawyer, which is serving now as proof, that Mark Roesler lied in public and tried to bluff the fans and collectors:

Mark Roesler, chairman and chief executive of CMG Worldwide Inc., the Indianapolis-based company that licenses the names and likenesses of 250 celebrities, including Monroe, said he remains absolutely convinced that Otto's collection is authentic and has appraised it as being worth $8.75 million. He said he's not at all surprised by the allegations of fraud.

"You always have jealous fan club members and collectors who question such things," Roesler said. "It goes with the territory."[19]

The last try to get away with the fraudulent exhibit was a 'facelift' of the months old exhibition in Long Beach. Almost all of the exposed items were replaced with items that were not on display at exhibit opening. But it was too late and the extention of the exhibit was the 'last breath' of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit.'[20]

On his Wikipedia page Mark Roesler is being portrayed as representing 400 personalities, but in The Los Angeles Times interview, which is still the most recent interview, he is stating 250 celebrities. A difference of 150 clients?[21]

Roesler is asking on his website for donations for his own Legends Museum, which is located in his office building in Indianapolis, IN, which hosted the opening for the fraudulent Marilyn Monroe exhibit.[22]

On his website www.MarkRoesler.com, the star lawyer is currently playing a video from a speech, that he has given on May 31, 2005,[23]five months after the opening of 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit,' at Mark Roesler's CMG building in Indianapolis, IN, and six month before the next and ultimately the final stop of the exhibit in Long Beach, CA.[24]

Mark Roesler has not come forward with any sort of statement or explanation in regards to the exhibition fraud which he fully supported with statements, interviews, personal appearances and even bringing in one of his famous clients. Legendary Playboy magazine publisher Hugh Hefner[25] appeared on November 10, 2005, at the press opening for the biggest scam in exhibition history.[26]

If Mark Roesler's 'Marilyn Monroe--the exhibit' would not have been stopped, and instead had toured for the next twelve years, to over 39 cities worldwide as announced at exhibit's opening, it could have easily created $100 million.[27]

But more important than money, it would have created shame for the United States of America and it would have turned Marilyn Monroe into something that she never was or wanted to be--a joke! [28]

Why on Earth does this ridiculously long, POV-plagued text keep appearing in the article? --Downtownstar 04:26, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

It may be long, agree on that, but the links prove the importance. There are two lawsuits filed and in progress against the estate of Marilyn Monroe. But they are not mentioned at all on the main page. Why? Not important? Would you not agree that it might be important if Marilyn Monroe turns "public domain" in the near future, so anybody could use her image and print it on wherever, without being sued by lawyer Mark Roesler and state owner Anna Strasberg? To Downtownstar, I suggest that you take it on and post it in the most Wiki friendly and correct way. That would be wonderful for all the new fans who might find Marilyn Monroe, but have no clue what is really going on right now in regards of the estate and the people who profit from those fans, when they go and buy a tacky MM purse for example. Thanks for your help!

With all due respect, whoever you are (please sign your comments in the future), it is not appropriate to make such major additions on Wikipedia articles before reaching consensus among other editors. Furthermore, while I sympathize with your honest and endearing fondness to this particular subject, I'd like to politely remind you that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a forum where you're allowed to state your opinion on this kind of subjects, no matter how right you may be. Please stop adding nonsense here, no-one here wants a war. Thanks and Happy Holidays!--Downtownstar 08:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I can show you many parts of the Marilyn Monroe page that just took information from my blogs. So that is fine and cool and not plagiarism at all, since it was just "borrowed" right? You do not want a war? This country is still in war, I was attacked during my 13 months investigation. If you do not want to inform readers of your site about the ongoings, what is it good for anyhow. This is not my "opinion" it is simply fact. What has been going on in the Marilyn Monroe history is shocking and it needs to be pointed out! People helped themself and posted my findings and did not post the source for those findings. The source was my investigation and then my blogs. This is a discussion forum, or is it not? We can post--anybody is allowed to post here. Correct or not? I like to politely remind you that information is as important as prevention. Thanks and Happy Holidays to you to, and I wish you were correct, but it is not just "nonsense" I wish it was. Mmmovie 03:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

This is not a discussion forum, it is a page to discuss improvements to the Wikipedia article on Marilyn Monroe. Information you have gathered yourself is no use for the article, as it violates our rule against original research. I hope you will understand that repeatedly adding the info against consensus is likely to get you blocked. --Guinnog 06:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

In the death and aftermath was a wrong number mentioned as the Christie's auction results. Instead of $12.3, They made $13.4 million. Please take a note of that.Mmmovie 02:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening paragraph

Her career began in small roles, she gradually became known for her comedic skills and screen presence, going on to become one of the most popular movie stars of the 1950s.

this sentence is grammatically incorrect with the first comma. it should either be a 'period' or replace with 'and.' the word 'As' could be used to begin the sentence, making it correct. thoughts? The undertow 09:38, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So I'm doing a speech on Marilyn Monroe...

 I'm doing this speech on Marilyn Monroe 

and I have alot of information about her but, I think it lacks something. I wanted to know if any one on this site had any good dirt on Maryilyn - anything you wouldn't normally know or find easily. I wanted my speech to sound well researched but everything I have found about he seems to be the same on every site. If you have anything I would appreciate it. Thanks! -Nemi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nemi16 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Protection's not working?

I logged off my account and tried to edit this article, and it let me! Isn't this article supposed to be protected by unregistered users? 68.121.145.107 21:25, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It was protected with an autoexpiration which has passed. I don't know if a non-admin can remove the tag. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 21:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alleged Abortions

I had recently read in an online article that Marilyn Monroe has had several abortions including the child of President John F. Kennedy can anyone give more clarification on this subject and if it is true or not true?? 68.162.0.79 03:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dress Size?

What was Marilyn Monroe's UK dress size? I've read in magazines that it was a UK 14-16. Is this true? 212.139.171.139 17:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anna Nicole Smith...

Can somebody add to the article about how women like Madonna and Nicole Smith are/were inspired by her? I would do, but the page is semi-protected. I haven't read the whole thing, so maybe they're already there, but it's important. 212.139.171.139 17:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Very pink

An alleged Monroe short porn movie featuring a wall-socket powered dildo(!) has just been uploaded to the web from FBI archives. Some say it is a fake, i.e. the girl in it is actually "Airline Hunter", a Playboy centrefold and B-class movie actress from 1954, instead of MM. Not that it matters any, MM was a highly talented, lovable icon, way above the current crop of Paris and Britney junk.

Anyhow, here is the footage: http://index.hu/img/assets/video/playere.swf?file=/cinematrix/marilyn —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.131.210.162 (talk) 11:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] early years

is there a way to clean up the 2nd paragraph? it starts with 'Her Mexican-born mother, Gladys Pearl Monroe (born in Piedras Negras, Mexico), had returned from Kentucky.' then it goes off topic. what is this sentence in relation to? was she born, to have her mother leave, and then return? i don't know much about miss monroe, but the early life seems to be non-linear.
The undertow 07:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Also her father didn't emigrate from Norway. He was born in Vallejo, California. Wjhonson 06:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

More details with documentation on her early life, parents, ancestors here. Wjhonson 00:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cursum Perficio

A google search on "latin Cursum Perficio" will get you past most of the Enya stuff and link to several pages offering up translations for various Latin phrases. The most common translations for "Cursum Perficio" are "My journey is over", "My journey ends here", "I make an end to my course", etc. I've only seen one translation for "Stay on course" (but others closer to "I have stayed the course" or "I have completed the course" which is nearer to the sense of the other translations) from a google search on "Cursum Perficio" (no "latin") that leads to someone's personal website and a claim to the family motto. So, not speaking Latin, I'd go with the preponderence of google evidence and I have cited the item as such. Ave atque vale! (Hail and farewell). Wiggy! 07:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

this really depends on the literal translation. the word 'course' derives from 'cursum,' so i am inclined to use it (course), rather than 'journey.' 'perficio' means to 'complete or finish.' i believe the most literal of translations would be 'i completed my course.' the_undertow ^talk 07:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

That's fair and essentially has the same sense. There was some short back-and-forth over which of the translations was correct, and I couldn't see any evidence for "Stay on course" (which was being pushed by an overly agressive editor I've come across elsewhere). This was way more civilized. Thanks for your help! Wiggy! 08:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bridgette Bardot

I added this to the misc. facts section. SmokeyTheCat 17:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

And I removed it, since you not only misspelled Brigitte Bardot's name but also failed to provide a convincing source.(And even if you had provided one, this gossip bit is far from encyclopedic info). --Downtownstar 10:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd have have though Bardot's memoirs were a reliable enough source. And I think I adds to the overall picture of the subject. So I have put it back. Remove again if you feel that strongly about it.SmokeyTheCat 09:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The least you could have done was to spell her name correctly. In any case, some wise people removed your entry before I got to it again. It's good to know I'm not alone here.--Downtownstar 09:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough Downtownstar, I will go with the majority and accept your judgement. Still the image of Monroe and Bardot in a clinch is one that will warm the hearts of most red-blooded males I would have thought. And a fair few followers of Sappho too. And I did get her name right the second time. Please don't quibble.SmokeyTheCat 11:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to sound judgmental. I'm sure you had the fairest of intentions. It's just that Wikipedia is not a porn magazine. It's an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias don't give a rat's arse for what turns on red-blooded males - or females.--Downtownstar 13:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marilyn Manson

can somebody talk about how he was inspired by her?70.126.190.77 23:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

seems like his inspirations would be a better fit on his page? the_undertow ^talk 23:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I just put it on anyways, and its on the charles manson page, i think70.126.190.77 23:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protection

Shouldn't this article be semi-protected for a while? It has been the target of extensive daily vandalism for quite a while. I already launched the semi-protection template once, but I accept the fact it was removed since I didn't discuss it. Opinions?--Downtownstar 13:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Do we need to vote for this? Some kind of a reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.--Downtownstar 19:55, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death

Sad case with Ana Nicole Smith, accidental suicide? Did Monrose died by accident, did she find her inner peace she never had? The lifestyle of rich and famous, especially marital problems, did that contribute to her suicide? Feel free to leave me a message. Rumors... is it true a sex maniac entered the morgue where she was at and violated her, is that true with James Dean? I am sure there was huge security? User_talk:Dale4sail