Talk:Murray Gold

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The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. Article needs to be organized into sections to get past Stub class. Needs infobox, photo, and a coherent order to the material. -- Karen | Talk | contribs 03:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Jewish" sentence

Also, rather than get into a revert war over the sentence about being Jewish and names of parents, it would be better to include any biographical data in a biography section at the top of the article. The sentence, when it's here, is misplaced and sticks out from the rest of the article, as if someone wants to make a particular point of the composer's religious or cultural background. Frankly, it doesn't strike me as particularly notable, since there seems to be no discernible connection between his being Jewish and his achievements as the composer of music for Doctor Who and other projects. If the sentence is to exist, it should probably be in the context of other info on his early life, schooling etc., not just stuck in at the end as if to say, "Hey, look! He's Jewish!" Okay, yes, his name tells me that is probably the case. So what? I personally don't much care whether this is mentioned or not, but if so it needs to be done right, not just reverted back and forth without any discussion. Thanks! Karen | Talk | contribs 03:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the track The Daleks on the soundtrack has some Hebrew lyrics, as noted on Doctor Who (soundtrack).--Rambutan (talk) 10:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I 100% agree with that. It strikes me that if the subject were not purportedly Jewish, and were in fact born into a non-practising 'christian' family, nobody would be proposing that the sentence 'he is Christian' be inserted at the end of the piece.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.190.65.61 (talk • contribs).

71.190.65.61, I think that you are actually Mr Chuzzlewit. As to your point: it is noteable that he's Jewish since his Judaism entered his music (listen to The Daleks).--Rambutan (talk) 18:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The most important thing is that the sentence about his religion/ethnicity (being Jewish can be either or both) be cited. If we can find a citation mentioning that the lyrics in "The Daleks" are Hebrew, that would probably be worth noting in the article. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Davies mentions the "What is happening?" Hebrew chant on the Bad Wolf DVD commentary, if that's any good to you. Angmering 19:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

– This simply has to stop. Mr Gold, like the vast majority of British people, is secular and practises no religion.

Why make a special case for a Jewish man? Are all Wikipedia's entries listed by religious denomination? Not at all. It is simply not relevant, and it is certainly not relevant to this subject.

As to the argument that a "dalek chant' contains a word of hebrew, what of it? He also wrote songs in French and Italian for Vanity Fair. You'd be better off writing that he is a polyglot.

British society does not require its citizens to declare their faith in official documents, nor for its census. Why on earth should Wikipedia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr chuzzlewit (talk • contribs) 20:55, March 19, 2007 (UTC)

It's not a requirement, but if proper attribution can be provided and a consensus of editors deems it relevant to the subject, I'm not sure why it should be excluded. The term "Jewish" may refer to a religion, an ethnicity and/or a culture (see Who is a Jew?). I gather that Mr. Gold is not an adherent of Judaism (the religion), and I don't know whether his ethnic or cultural Jewishness is particularly important to Mr. Gold or his music — however, it could be. It all depends on what reliable sources have said. If the matter of Murray Gold's ethnicity has been discussed in media coverage of his work, then it should probably be included in the article. If not, then there's probably no harm done in leaving it out. So there's the challenge: editors who wish to include mention of Gold's Jewishness in the article need to find a source and cite it; based on the coverage in the source, we can determine whether it's worth mentioning or not. Failing that, it should probably stay out of the article. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The Hebrew lyrics - as well as his very Jewish name - suggest that he is Jewish. I know people who go to his parents' synagogue, but they obviously aren't a reliable source. I'm sure we could persuade the BBC to post a news story containing confirmation of his religion, if that would be OK.

As to Mr Chuzzlewit's point of "are all Wikipedia entries listed by religion", the answer is yes. See Lists of Jews, List of Christians and Lists of Hindus, for example.--Rambutan (talk) 08:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I hear what you're saying, Rambutan, but it looks as if the question of whether Murray Gold is Jewish is "contentious", and so can't be included unless we have a citation from a reliable source, per WP:BLP. The Hebrew lyrics and his surname may indeed suggest that he's Jewish (at least by ethnicity), but that's not good enough for Wikipedia's purposes. I don't think that "persuading the BBC" is the right way to think about the matter either, but if the BBC does print a story which mentions Gold's Jewishness then we can revisit the matter. (There was a profile of Gold in Doctor Who Magazine a while back — did it mention his faith or ethnicity? That would also qualify as a reliable source.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)