Talk:Order of Saint Benedict

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What does "the longest lasting of the western monastic orders" mean? Perhaps eldest surviving western monasatic order? Certainly there are other still functioning western monastic orders - is the benedictine the oldest? -rmhermen

Contents 1 Somebody's stepbrother 2 Parens ain't formal? 3 The overall state of the article 4 Belmont Abbey 5 Better-informed experts? 6 When did it begin to spread 7 Benedictine MOVEMENT? 8 Latin name 9 St Gregory's palace "on Apostle"?

[edit] Somebody's stepbrother

His homosexual step-brother, Eugene Leipounski, joined Benedict's order.

This sentence about a step-brother has been in this article, apparently unchallenged, for some time. A view through the history reveals that several different names, none of which seem right for Italy in the sixth century, have been used in it; I doubt them all. Most recently, the article has been edited by an anon who calls the step-brother a homosexual; it seems unlikely that there's much data on the sexual habits of a sixth century monk. I have removed the sentence entirely for the time being. -- Smerdis of Tlön 19:15, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

And if I see Eugene Leipounski back in this, those IPs will get reported as vandals. -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:08, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Parens ain't formal?

A recent editor writes:

proper and formal grammatic form... no parentheses in sentences

Where do you get that idea? Parens are fine in formal writing (although nested parens (like these) probably aren't acceptable in most writing). See

Atlant 22:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The overall state of the article

This article is in a real poor state – parentheses or not. Anyone with the inside knowledge and time please to help, also to sort out overlaps with similar articles? Have provided a couple of links for starters to indicate some important points requiring revision/expansion.

Portress 08:58, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, this is Wikipedia, so you know what to do: be bold!

Atlant 11:33, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Belmont Abbey

As a Student of Belmont Abbey College, I'm surprised it's not listed as an Abbey. It was founded by the Benedictine monks, and today the campus cohabit ates with the Monastery, and some monks teach courses.

Done. Feel free to modify articles yourself! I don't "own" this site and am, in fact, a very infrequent visitor to it.Student7 21:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Better-informed experts?

JHCC, the sad state of affairs on Wikipedia is that there isn't uniform coverage on all the fields of human study. Computers, Star Wars, and Star Trek we've got lots of. Hard science? We've got plenty of that too. Articles of interest to Libertarians? Check.

But when it comes to the softer topics (like sociology and the like), unless there's an advocacy group behind it, the coverage is slim-to-naught. Look at how the High Middle Ages article is languishing, forlorn and unloved.

So if you have anything you want to add, by all means, have at it! We need you!

Atlant 15:14, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

When I first stumbled across Wiki, I thought here is someone whose brains I can pick. Now Wiki wants to pick mine... My desk is groaning under the load of matters that have been urgent for the past few months; but I'll surely try to contribute thoughts to help the odd neglected subject along as best I can.

Portress 02:37, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! And we could watch the portal for you for a little while if it would help. ;-)

Atlant 16:51, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] When did it begin to spread

This phrase "It is not until the Middle Ages, around the time of the "Black Monks", that we first hear mention of an Order of Saint Benedict." is very imprecise. Middle Ages can refer to anytime between about 500 and perhaps as late as 1500.

i dont know the answer, but a more accurate date is definitely needed

It should also be clarified whether we are talking here about (A) the spread of Benedictine practice or (B) the organization of a (so-called) Benedictine order. JHCC 13:23, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Please sign your comments! JHCC 13:23, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

1) Have made a mental note to provide asap more detail re: first use of "Order".

2) Dear JHCC: "Order" ("organization") - v - "ordering" (i.e. "way of living"). Should therefore not everything concerning "ordering" be dealt with exclusively under the heading "Rule of SB"? If necessary create additional sub-headings there?!

Portress 00:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Benedictine MOVEMENT?

Sorry, unacceptable. Suggest "way of [religious] living". This offers itself, because "way (Latin via) [of living]" is a/the crucial concept in the Rule of St Benedict, e.g. Prol. 20: "See how the Lord in his love shows us the way of life"; Prol. 24: "he shows us the way to his tabernacle/tent"; Prol. 48: "do not run away from the way that leads to salvation"; Prol. 49: "we shall run the way of God's commandments"; ... ch. 71.2: "we know that it is by this way of obedience that we go to God". The use of the term in the Rule of St Benedict has an impeccable pedigree: cf. Greek hodos = "way" in Acts 9:2.

Portress 01:23, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Latin name

We need to clarify (and correct on relevant pages) the whole "Confoederatio Benedictina Ordinis Sancti Benedicti" / "Ordo Sancti Benedicti" business. If I am not mistaken, Ordo Sancti Benedicti is the Latin name for the ORDER as such, while Confoederatio Benedictina Ordinis Sancti Benedicti is the Latin name for the CONFEDERATION. The two are not the same thing: the latter is the governing body of the former. In other words, the OSB article should have Ordo Sancti Benedicti and the Benedictine Confederation should have Confoederatio Benedictina Ordinis Sancti Benedicti. I've changed the OSB page, but I'd be interested if anyone has a good reason not to (in which case we can change it back). JHCC 17:27, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Dear JHCC: Since accidentally stumbling across the Wiki threshold, this present subject in particular, I have a mental note to try to trace a verbatim copy of the relevant original texts in order to be able to tighten up any loose language in this respect. At the moment, for all I know there has been no foundation of an order as a legal entity. Rather the order seems to be an abstract, a kind of a concept to be able to understand and treat Benedictines in the same organizational way as religious orders, especially in Church Law, a concept that has received a serviceable legal shape through the formation of the Congregations that eventually came to be represented in the Confederation of today. But the Confederation is not a Generalate; and the Abbot Primate is not a Superior General. - Let's wait and see what the next expert passing by has to offer. Portress 03:24, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you clarify that distinction over in religious order and link to it in these articles? There is some good material on the public domain Catholic Encyclopedia here that we can raid. JHCC 13:45, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] St Gregory's palace "on Apostle"?

"... when Gregory the Great embraced the monastic life and converted his family palace on Apostle ..." What is "palace on Apostle" supposed to mean? Is "on Apostle" a location? Or a mishap during translation from a source in another language? Some clarification seems to be called for. Thanks! Portress 03:24, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)