Talk:Professional wrestling holds
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[edit] STF-U is STS??
The fact is, Cena does the STS version a few times, mainly during no DQ matches. If you've watched his recent STF-Us, he does the Facelock version. http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/johncena/stfuphotos/ . Images, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 are facelock. The rest is sleeper holds. It is a facelock much like Benoit's Crippler Crossface. He has also done the sleeper version. But you don't call his Crossface a sleeperhold.
- Rear naked choke#"Clasping-hands" version - that isn't a facelock. Notice how Benoit's crossface goes around the face covering the nose and mouth, as seen at Crossface.jpg, while Cena's goes around the neck. Image 6 isn't applied correctly as evidenced by image 7 which shows that it's around the neck and not around the mouth while 8 and 9 you can't see where he's holding Edge because of his hair and Edge facing downwarss, which I might add would be impossible if it was a facelock as facelocks pull back on the head. It's a sleeper hold. --- Lid 01:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Cena's STFU is sold as a facelock. He puts his arms around their necks, but he puts pressure on their jaws and pulls them back much like a crossface, as evident from Cena's recent matches, and as in the pictures mentioned above. Image 7 clearly shows that it was on the jaw area. On the images 8 & 9, it is a facelock, as clearly shown by the way he positioned his arms. The one he did on Angle and Masters are truly chokeholds. In which then we can safely say, it's an STS.
- It can't be a facelock if it doesn't go around the face or pull back on the face, at best right now from your description it sounds like a Stepover Toehold Rear Chinlock when he uses the clasped hand read naked choke. --- Lid 01:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
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- I'm checking out the images, especially the ones pointed out, and the only thing I see that might be a facelock is 9, but only because Edges hair is in the way, and judging from 8 it's probably not. -- Bdve 02:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/tvshows/raw/200605/052906/r052906nitrocena?section=%2Fsuperstars%2Fraw%2Fjohncena%2Frawvideos%2F Watch the 0:40 mark. Facelock. http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/tvshows/raw/200604/2514414/r041006handicap?section=%2Fsuperstars%2Fraw%2Fjohncena%2Fcenavstriplehvids%2F Watch the 2:25 mark. Facelock. And these are from his recent matches. Even from the pictures I have mentioned, there are none that would come across as a Rear naked choke#"Clasping-hands" version, except 8 & 9, my mistake. -- CWar 03:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
- Those are both sleeper versions. His arm is around the neck. this is a facelock. Arm around the face.
- That was me, as is this. -- Bdve 03:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
His arms weren't even on the neck. It was the head, and he pulled it up like the Crossface. I guess you can say it's a chinlock. But it's definately not a sleeper. -- CWar 04:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
- Have you seen a sleeper during a restling match? 9/10 they aren't around the neck either because if it is it can be a legitimite bloodchoke. --- Lid 06:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, in most wrestling matches, sleeper holds aren't directly applied to the neck, mostly jaw area. But it is given the impression as such because the victim tucks their necks in, so that it looks like he is being choked. Whereas in STF-U's case, especially in the videos and the above mentioned images, the victim's necks are clearly exposed while Cena pulls away at their jaw areas. I am not saying that STF-U isn't a STS. He has done the STS version a couple of times. But there is no way to say that the version he has been doing since about No Way Out is still a STS. -- CWar 06:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of whether or not John Cena uses a form of the STS or the STF, it is not relevant to the discussion of the move. Thus, it has no business being in the encyclopedia article since it does not describe the move, its origin, or its place of first fame. Please do not continue putting it in the encyclopedia entry.
I've got a solution so everyone will be happy. How about we say it's an STF or an STS ? (Like in CM Punk's Anaconda Vice, which is either an Anaconda Vice or an Arm Triangle Choke. Kickurass00 21:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Muta Lock?
I was under the impression that the "Muta Lock" is properly called an "Inverted STF." Because that's pretty much what it is. --Pathogen 08:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Texas Cloverleaf
The picture used doesn't accurately depict a Cloverleaf.
- Yeah it is. It's not the best picture of one possible, but it's a Texas Cloverleaf.Bdve 06:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Inside Cradle & School Boy Pin
I think the different types of pins (including Sunset Flip) need a better spot than just under Misc. considering how frequently they're used and how many there are. And I don't see the very basic Inside Cradle on any wrestling move article. Maybe someone categorized it under a different name, but that seems unlikely. I'm going to add it to Misc. and I may add the School Boy roll up also. If they're already added, you can delete mine and please direct me to where they are. User:Caleson August 1, 2006
- Pinfall (professional wrestling)Bdve 23:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Surfboard
Rob Van Dam i have a picture of surfboard his chair dropkick to a person seated on the bottom turnbuckle and am very sure it doesn't fit with corner to corner dropkick so where should it go??
[edit] TOC to the right?
Should we move the Table of Contents on this page (and other lists like this) over to the right like it is on Pinfall (professional wrestling)? -- bd (talk to me) 03:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- That should only be used for pages with a low image count and/or a short length. This one is neither and think it should keep the TOC at it's position. –– Lid(Talk) 04:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Good call on the images, which I didn't even consider. -- bd (talk to me) 04:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Belly to Back Wristlock/Barely Legal
I just added this tonight under Arm locks:
Belly to Back Wristlock
From behind a seated opponent, the attacker pulls upward the opponent's elbow while pushing his palm back into the attacker’s chest. This causes pressure on the opponent’s wrist and potential stretching of the triceps and teres major muscles. The hold was frequently used by Barry Darsow under the name Breaker 1-9 and later as Barely Legal.
I originally had it under the general Arm locks but now put it specifically under Wristlocks. Would this actually constitute as a wristlock, and if not, what should the generic name be? The attacker doesn't actually hold the wrist; he presses it against his own chest while forcing the victim's elbow back. Thanks. Cale 01:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wrist Clutch needs to be added.
Wrist Clutch needs to be added in Transition holds
[edit] Inverted or Reverse
I was wondering the difference between an inverted move and a reverse move. For example, the indian death lock has 2 modifications on this page. The inverted and reverse indian death locks. However, the reverse indian death lock says it's a modification of an inverted indian death lock. So wouldn't the proper name be a reverse, inverted indian death lock? Thank you.
