Talk:Sid Vicious

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Contents 1 Pop Culture References 2 misc copyvios and remarks 3 Problematic line? 4 Discography 5 Re: Flowers of Romance 6 CULT OF THE DEAD COW 7 Primitive anarchist? 8 Interview Question 9 Death 10 "Slender and Likable"? 11 Sid Vicious was a Neo-Nazi? 12 Controversy/Criticism 13 Deborah Spungen declines own request?

[edit] Pop Culture References

I forced myself to watch the 'Holiday' video by Green Day, out of curiosity and I'm almost certain the bassist is NOT dressed as Sid Vicious at all. He is just dressed as his normal self and he has his usual dyed blonde hair. I suggest that this bit be removed from the pop culture references.

Yeah, I saw that too and was pretty puzzled by the claim. He doesn't seem to be dressed as Sid at all. I left it, though, seeing as I couldn't really tell, and I'm not a fan of Green Day so I don't know what the bassist usually looks like.

[edit] misc copyvios and remarks

http://www.theiceberg.com/artist/25843/sid_vicious/

Hmm I started a copy edit before the copyright notice appeared- if I can rewrite sufficiently I'll replace the page content with this- for now I'll leave this on the talk page to work on it if that's OK quercus robur 15:40 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

Or put a stub in that's original material -- see if there are other wikipedians up for a game of stub tennis :-) (not me though, before my time ;-) -- Tarquin 17:10 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

Excellent short history of Sid Vicious.

i dunno i dont trust wiki sites but i do like this. i reckon he did kill her . i would have killed her if i were sid . he was and will ever be the king of punk! forget elvis !

the link for that apparent copyright violation is down. also, i believe steve jones played on all but 1 bass track, glen matlock played on the other. does anyone know if the book mentioned says that? Brinkost 02:15, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

do u think he actually killed her??

As the article says, he made what amounted to an admission of guilt. It's extremely likely that he done it, the "dirty dog" (his words for himself after she was murdered). Moreover, his death was almost certainly a suicide, either by negligence or whatever. Wyss 15:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I think it'd be good to have a better photo at the top of the page than his mugshot. Not something that's like a posed Vicious shot but at least another picture. The mugshot would service better at the bottom.

If it was anyone else than Sid I'd say yeah, but the mug shot so fits his image and legacy. That said, if a more helpful PD or fair use pic comes along... Wyss 15:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Well that's too bad, because I just added a unposed color photo of him actually playing his instrument. I never cared much for the Sid Vicious "legacy", I always wanted to know what he was really like.

You're welcome to edit the article, that's what WP's all about. Wyss 16:01, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

But images must be PD or fair use. The one you inserted appears to have been taken directly from http://www.nndb.com/people/671/000031578/sid-vicious-sm.jpg

So I've reverted it back. Wyss 16:12, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Which is a real shame because it was a fantastic picture. I'd like to know what fair use means and why it even matters if no one's even making money from putting stuff on this website. Did the site that picture came from even own the picture in the first place?

[edit] Problematic line?

"On the morning of October 12, 1978 Vicious awoke from a drug-induced stupour to find Spungen dead in their apartment at the Hotel Chelsea, Room 100 in New York." Is this certain or is this just what he claimed? As far as I know this can't be confirmed, and it is possible that Sid consciously killed her. Am I wrong? -R. fiend 19:25, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• It's the 'generally accepted' version of events. Apparently Vicious awoke to find Nancy dead with no recollection of what actualy happened during the night. Not unlikely considering his constantly zonked out state (although on another occasion he claimed he was the killer and did it 'because I'm a dirty dog' (Sid that is, not me!)). There is also a possibility that Nancy was actually killed by a third party, possibly a drug dealer visiting the flat, apparently people were coming and going from their flat on a pretty constant basis. We'll never know for sure, but I don't think the line is problematic here, it's the version that also appears in most of the books, eg, Englands Dreaming quercus robur 20:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• • Hmmmm. Well, what is "apparently" what happened, and "not unlikely", as well as "generally accepted", is not compeltely the same as fact, which remains how it is stated here. My main problem is that if that isn't true, certainly Sid would have a strong motive for lying, and we're only going by his word. I would still perfer it were phrased as his version of the events, noting that nothing confirms or contradicts it. -R. fiend 22:19, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• • • No probelm, rephrase away my fiend as long as it doesn't get convoluted into one of those 'some say' but 'many think' tongue twisters that are the bane of this 'pedia! quercus robur 00:55, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

---

Presumably alot of the below are bootleg releases- maybe these could be sorted into 'official' and bootleg releases? quercus robur 13:30, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Aren't they all basically bootleg releases? I didn't see one that was released before his death anyway. -R. fiend 15:07, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discography

SID VICIOUS

• My Way/Something Else/C’mon Everybody (1979, 12”, Barclay, Barclay 740 509)
• Sid Sings (1979, LP, Virgin, V2144)
• Live (1980, LP, Creative Industry Inc., JSR 21)
• Vicious Burger (1980, LP, UD-6535, VD 6336)
• Love Kills N.Y.C. (1985, LP, Konexion, KOMA 788020)
• The Sid Vicious Experience – Jack Boots and Dirty Looks (1986, LP, Antler 37)
• The Idols With Sid Vicious (1993?, CD, Last Call Records, LC22289)
• Never Mind the Reunion Here’s Sid Vicious (1997, CD)
• Sid Dead Live (1997, CD, Anagram, PUNK 86)
• Sid Vicious Sings (1997, CD)
• Vicious & Friends (1998, CD, Dressed To Kill Records, Dress 602)
• Better (to provoke a reaction than to react to a provocation) (1999, CD, Almafame, YEAAH6)
• Probably His Last Ever Interview (2000, CD, OZIT, OZITCD62)
• Better (2001, CD)
• Vive Le Rock (2003, 2CD)
• Too Fast To Live... (2004, CD)
• Naked & Ashamed (7”, Wonderful Records, WO-73)
• Sid Live At Max’s Kansas City (LP, JSR 21)
• Sid Vicious (LP, Innocent Records, JSR 21)
• Sid Vicious McDonald Bros. Box (3CD, Sound Solutions, 003)

SID VICIOUS & FRIENDS

• (Don’t You Gimme) No Lip/(I’m Not Your) Steppin’ Stone (1989, 7”, SCRATCH 7)
• Sid Vicious & Friends (1998, CD, Cleopatra, #251, ASIN: B0000061AS)

SID VICIOUS/EDDIE COCHRAN

• Sid Vicious v’s Eddie Cochran – The Battle Of The Rockers (LP, Jock, LP 6)

SID VICIOUS/ELVIS PRESLEY

• Cult Heroes (1993, CD)

VICIOUS WHITE KIDS

• The Vicious White Kids (1987, LP, Ritchie 1)
• Vicious White Kids (2001, CD, Sanctuary, CMRCD372)

THE FLOWERS OF ROMANCE

• Sue Catwoman (2004, CD, The Flowers Of Romance)

Note: this is a different "Flowers of Romance" from the original band, see below... -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:55, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Flowers of Romance

A musician named Tony Blackplait has formed a band called "The Flowers of Romance." I've seen nothing that definitively indicates that the new band or Blackplait had anything to do with the original The Flowers of Romance (band). But someone is making claims to this effect, in this article and others. Tony Blackplait may or may not have made the acquaintance of Sid Vicious, so I've left the reference to him in the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:55, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CULT OF THE DEAD COW

There is a link to this side, where Sid Vicious is descriped at one af the founders of CULT OF THE DEAD COW.

• Why did you took the discography off? This is important.--80.235.54.92 19:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

It's all integrated now. Wyss 20:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Primitive anarchist?

Where did the idea that Sid was a 'primitive individualist anarchist' come from? I doubt he ever read Max Stirner or John Zerzan, he was just a kid who wanted to be a rock and roll star and got sucked into the myth of his own lifestyle. Despite using the 'A' in a circle symbol for shock value I don't suppose he ever had an articulate political thought in his existance, hence reverted addition to text. quercus robur 19:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Sid was none-too-bright, and spent most of his time in an altered state of mind. It's the opinion of most that he knew next to nothing about anarchy as a political concept. Furthermore, I've never heard of him saying anything promoting anarchy. The closest is him wearing the Anarchy logo, but he wore a Nazi swastika as well and the two aren't exactly compatible. SwitChar6:54, 22 January 2006

He was very bright before the drugs. Although I've never heard he was a "Primitive Anarchist"; I've also never heard that he was "none-too-bright". He was an amazing artist and was amazing with Surrealist like symbolism. He never wore the Anarchy logo either. Speaking of Sids Wardrobe; the Swastika Shirt was a Vivienne Westwood design that could be bought on Tees, Muslins, Bumflaps, and Bondage Gear, the origin is more than likely that it was simply given to him by McLaren or Westwood (who was very fond of him). There is no Nazi conspiracy behind it.

I've also heard that Sid was actually quite intelegent and articulate before the drugs got to him, but that doesn't make him a primitivist anarchist (was the concept even around then???) or indeed a nazi, I don't think he was either, just a kid who got destroyed by his own fame and his own mythology quercus robur 18:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interview Question

In the article there's a quote about an interview where Sid Vicious is quoted to have said, he wants to be under the ground. Does anybody know anything more about that interview? I'd be very interested. I only can find copies of that part of interview acutally as being copied from wikipedia, but nothing else. Informations would be very nice. Thanks!

From memory, this interview follows very closely to one that was aired by the BBC, for the "Nationwide" news magazine program. The interviewer was (again from memory) Sue Lawley, one of the major presenters. As I recall, the question preceeding the ones quoted were something like, "Why do you do the things that you do?" to which Sid answered "Dunno. I just only wanted to have some fun." During the aforementioned long pause Mr Vicious gave Sue Lawley such a look of withering contempt that only a complete tv industry airhead would not have noticed it. Ms Lawley appeared not to have noticed it. ps. I didn't much care for Sid, but he was pretty much a victim by the end.LessHeard vanU 21:38, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death

Hmmm..... I am thinking that perhaps he murdered Nancy under the influence of drugs or alcohol or something, and then maybe passed out. That might explain why he awoke to find her dead with no recollection of what happened.

Well, John Lydon thinks Sid didn't kill Nancy and i guess so do many other fans. I don't know, but i tend to agree with John Lydon actually. We'll never really know for sure. termi

[edit] "Slender and Likable"?

Just a nitpick, but as a direct quote from the article: Described by peers as "slender and likable",... Does that mean that someone literally said, "oh yes, he was very slender and likable"? Or is it two different adjectives used at two different times to describe him? If it is, it would need to be Described by peers as "slender" and "likable". Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong entirely... it just seems funny that someone's peer would describe them as "slender and likable"... Skin Crawl 06:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sid Vicious was a Neo-Nazi?

Look at the picture..

He wore the swastika shirt to offend people, not out of any neo-nazi belief.

I don't think that the comment directly above is sufficient to quell the initial inquiry. The rationale that the swastika was worn "to offend people" is simplistic and wrong. One must think about who, really, was most offended by such a display. The answer is obvious. Why did Sid Vicious wear a symbol so offensive to Jews in particular, and so soon after the Holocaust? If his intent was to offend people in general, he was clearly too ignorant to realize the specific impact of the Nazi emblem. If he was rational enough to realize the disproportionate offense caused by the display, I think it's safe to say that he was a racist. The choice, then, is between sheer stupidity and intentional racism. 128.103.14.55 01:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy/Criticism

Should there be some kind of section in regards to the controversy surrounding Sid and his public persona? Obviously the British media had a field day with Sid, and 'respectable types' probably didn't like him as much either, but then there is another viewpoint from within the punk and underground music community that Sid was rather bad for punk in general, with some even saying that Sid Vicious' meteoric rise to fame was partially the cause for punk's downfall, with many punks after the fact starting to follow his behavior and dress quite literally and thus losing the important element of punk that is originality, creativity and diversity in style. The best example of this on the top of my mind would be from Ian Mackaye (Minor Threat, Fugazi, Evens, etc.) who stated that Sid was a 'nihilistic junkie' and that he and his friends wanted nothing to do with that scene. Just a though, would like to hear some opinions on the matter...

[edit] Deborah Spungen declines own request?

After Vicious' death, his mother phoned Deborah Spungen, Nancy's mother, to request that he be buried next to her, but Deborah Spungen declined.

I don't know anyone here, so I'll leave it to someone else to fix, just wanted to point this out. --69.120.63.248 01:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)