Talk:Stand-up comedy

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Contents 1 First sentence doesn't define the topic 2 Miscellaneous 3 One man show? 4 pffff 5 Where are the WOMEN? 6 Location-specific links 7 Rest of the world? 8 Wikipedia:Notability (comedy) 9 Sugggested External Link 10 Established actors?

[edit] First sentence doesn't define the topic

Just a small quibble, but the first sentence of the article doesn't actually state what stand-up comedy is. It says what a stand-up comedian is. In the interests of clarity, I would like to remedy this, and generally clean up the first paragraph, by replacing said paragraph with the following:

"Stand-up comedy is a from of comedy where the performer speaks directly to the audience, with the absence of the theatrical fourth wall. A person who performs stand-up comedy is usually referred to as a 'stand-up comic', 'stand-up comedian' or more informally 'stand up'. It is usually performed by a single comedian, and usually with the aid of a microphone. The comedian usually recites a fast paced succession of amusing stories, short jokes (called bits), and one-liners, typically called a monologue, routine or act. Some stand-up comedians use props, music, or magic tricks in their acts. Stand-up comedy is often performed in comedy clubs, bars, colleges and theaters. However there is no real restriction on where it can be performed."

Does anybody have any objections to this, or suggestions for improvement? I could particularly use a little help with style, tags etc, as I'm still getting the hang of Wikipedia's format. Dione Maddern 02:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Right, I'm changing it. Somebody can always change it again if they have something to add. Dione Maddern 00:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous

"Stand-up comedy is perhaps the easiest field of entertainment for new talent to enter, because many smaller venues hold "open mic" events where the inexperienced can perform comedy before a live audience."

Is it just me or that an incorrect statement? Many music venues hold open mic (or "open stage") nights. --plattopus (talk) 19:27, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

• Music is undoubtedly easier to enter than stand-up comedy, mostly because of the prevalence of events for new and/or local musicians compared to those for comedians. However, it would be accurate to say that stand-up is the easiest form of comedy to enter. As such, I'm changing that line to be more fitting. --Elfer 00:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer " can be a relatively easy" to "is perhaps the easiest". Can someone tell me what 'hits the money line' means? Or better, tell the reader... Pedant 06:52, 2005 July 20 (UTC)

• Gee, you try to add a little color to captions... I meant that he's obviously just hit the punchline that pays off with the big laugh, and he's stopping, looking out into the audience, and taking in the moment. Perhaps the use of the term "money line" in this context, meaning a pivotal sentence that hits with an emotional effect, is not as common as I'd thought. I must admit I was rather surprised that mirrors of this page so dominate a google search for "money line" AND "comedy".--Pharos 07:32, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

In the External Links section, there are some links that are not really apropriate, I feel. They seem to be advertising web sites more than serving as an explanation of Stand Up. At the very least, I'm going to remove the Colorado-centric one. Some of the others might have a bit more merit.

I removed the link again -- it was put back by the same anonymous user.

Removed "http://www.empirecomedy.com - The source for comedy content online, from stand up, late night tv to movies, literature & radio." Placed by annon user. I probably wouldn't have even noticed it except it seemed so pretentious to call it "*THE* source".

It was replaced by the same annon user. I removed it again. It is a nice site, but it still looks like linkspam to me. I'll stop yanking it when the user finds THIS discussion page and justifies the link's existence. --67.177.235.1 05:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I like the "how to" links, though. Wish there were more. --Mer2D2 07:11, 07 January 2006 (UTC)

Could somebody please revise the last 2 paragraphs, it makes it sound like Stand-up Comedy is something unique to america that has failed to spread to the rest of the world.

I seem to remember an American TV commercial for an imported German beer. It showed a very un-funny German comedian doing a stand-up routine. "We don't do comedy. We do beer." was the tag line, if I recall. Anyway, my point is that there seems to be some thinking that Stand-Up is a strictly western feature. I recall Eddie Izzard saying that his stand-up was oddly received in France. If someone wants to create a "International Standup" section, I think it would be well received. --67.177.235.1 05:50, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One man show?

I was loking for an article on one man shows, but that doesn't seem to exist. Then I looked here and found the description in the first paragraph is somewhere between that and what I thought a stand up comedian was. I thought a stand up comedian steps up from the audience, does a few jokes for about ten minutes and then makes way for the next. What else does the term mean ('stand up from the audience', right?). So shouldn't the intro then state that?

What I mean by 'one man show' has only one thing in common with this, namely that it is one person on stage. For the rest, it's a long show (one or two hours) that may involve some theatre, but the focal point of which is the humour. An example of this is the 'old year shows' in the Netherlands, started by Wim Kan (no article yet? Where is our national pride? Oh yeah, forgot, we Dutch can't be bothered with that :) ). Another fine example is Freek de Jonge. Might the term 'one mand show' be Dutch? (Despite it being English - wouldn't surprise me.)

I don't know much about one man shows but I do know a lot about stand up. The two could be considered similar in overall execution. Except I tend of think of a one man show is more rooted in theater, in stageplays, while stand up is more centered around doing bits or jokes or narratives depending on style. And stand up comedians who are doing a whole show tend to do 45 minutes to 75 minutes of material (at least in America, in England they often go longer). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.210.57.183 (talk) 14:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

By the way, what is a fourth wall? DirkvdM 12:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The "fourth wall" is a stage term that refers to the audience (the back and sides of the stage are the other three "walls". "Breaking the fourth wall" essentially means speaking directly to the audience or otherwise reminding the audience that they are watching a scene. Rob 18:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the term One man show exists in English -- could also be referred to as "Solo Performance." Another term is comic monologue --Larrybob 21:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pffff

i dont no i dont get any of this comedian stuff

doogle refruntpal civlicat boob

---

The first couple of paragraphs appeared to include some weasel words and redundant phrases, such as referring to stand-up comedy as "many performers" feeling that stand-up comedy is "the hardest" theatrical discipline. While that may or may not be true, it's simply stated as fact without any reference or citation to an actual outside source making those claims. I changed the wording and removed some of the phrases to try and make the article a little more neutrally worded.

Now if someone has verifiable quotes from performers that say, for example, "I think stand-up comedy is the hardest theatrical discipline to master", then it would be appropriate to add a sentence that says "So-and-so was quoted as saying yada-yada-yada" (with appologies to Seinfeld).

[edit] Where are the WOMEN?

We are at least 10 paragraphs into the history section before any women are mentioned explicitly (there is an early reference to Burns & Allen, but the novice wouldn't know the latter was Gracie Allen). While certainly I don't want to inject women's names into the history undeservedly solely to be politically correct, there are several major female stand-ups from the early days onward: Phyllis Diller, Moms Mabley, and so on. (Sorry if those links turn out to be duds -- I'm partly testing and setting up in case there's no article.) The success of the early ones is all the more remarkable for the fact that as women, they were bucking societal expectations; M. E. Kerr writes in her autobiography that her mother warned her about humor being unfeminine, using Fanny Brice as a cautionary example.

I'll try to make it back to research this and add some info on these women, but the school year's starting and I'll be a lot busier, so anyone who knows this stuff by heart would be welcome. (I find that in comedy and music, among other fields, even the most widely recognized and admired women don't come to mind as readily as the men, for whatever reason -- even for us women.) Lawikitejana 04:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, it's a male dominated field. I think a few major successes need to be mentioned like Kathy Griffin, Janine Garofolo, and Paula Poundstone need to be mentioned, but if it's mostly guys, there's a reason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.85.183.1 (talk) 15:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Why not include a section about it being a male dominated field. I remember a panel discussion on Political Incorrect discussing this afterr Jerry Lewis stated that women aren't as good at stand up, in no uncertain terms. As I recall they sort of agreed (definitely agreed that it was a male dominated field), and wondered if it wasn't due to the differences in way men and women think and also socialization effects (a woman is less likely to see pro-social effects by trying to be funny while growing up). Also don't forget to mention Wanda Sykes and Sarah Silverman. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.210.57.183 (talk) 14:59, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Location-specific links

I've removed external links specific to the following locations from the article: Washington, DC, Nashville, Luxembourg, Buenos Aires, Louisville, and San Francisco. I don't object to any especially notable links, but Wikipedia is not a link directory and it doesn't seem neutral to have links for these places but not others. Wmahan. 21:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I am the one who added http://www.sfstandup.com, a guide to stand-up comedy in San Francisco. It's true there were not links to many places, but that is because most places don't have a comedy community large enough to merit one. In just the short time it was listed, I heard from 2 people who were happy to have found it. Please consider re-listing. Thanks. cl

I don't have a problem if a neutral editor wants to vouch for the link and re-add it, but you are not allowed to add links to your own website; see Wikipedia:External links. Wmahan. 20:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rest of the world?

This article seems to only refer to American comedians while I thought that Wikipedia was supposed to be a universal site. Perhaps some research could be done into comedy in the rest of the world e.g. here in Britain there are hundreds of hilarious comedians. Whoever wrote the article seems to have done narrow research. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.129.251.17 (talk)

I think if you could suggest some examples, I think those examples would be well received. Infinoid 13:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

2 examples are Eddie Izzard for england and Daniele Luttazzi for italy. Karl Kraus' lectures may qualify too. --BMF81 13:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

And perhaps highlighting some of the Australasian comedians. I know there may be less iof them, but stand-up is a high point of comedy in these parts, as opposesd to say sitcoms.

It is an American form. Stand up Comedy did not exist before it emerged in the United States. To this day it barely could be said to exist outside of English-speaking countries. UK, Ireland, and Australia need mentioning. The Netherlands is already mentioned. Is there anywhere else in the world where there's a vital comedy club scene?

I have to say that having a big warning at the top of this article about not being global enough, when we're discussing an art form that was created and continues to exist overwhelmingly in America comes across as ignorant and frankly detracts from the articles expected quality. Better to simply begin working on a section, or seperate sections, for stand-up comedians from each country where stand up is popular, than put up questionable alerts.

I think that a lot of the confusion about comedy outside the USA may arise because, unlike actors or musicians, relatively few comedians from outside the USA achieve fame there, although they might be household names in their home country. For example, I doubt that Steady Eddie or Rodney Rude would be widely known outside Australia. Similarly, there's not likely to be a lot of cross-over appeal for comedians who perform in a language other than English. Stand-up doesn't exactly transcend the language barriear. Anyway, I'm going to do a bit of research and try to expand the bit about Stand-up comedy in Australia. Hopefully some passing reader will get all indignant about it and make sure their own country gets a look-in too.

Dione Maddern 03:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, I think that Canada should really get a specific mention too, if only because it hosts a major internatinal comedy festival. That is to say, I know the festival is mentioned, but it probably needs a bit more info on the scene in Canada in general. Dione Maddern 01:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Notability (comedy)

I've created Wikipedia:Notability (comedy) to help editors in deciding the notability of comedy- and humor-related articles. Please help hammer it into shape. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 09:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sugggested External Link

Please consider a link to...

• Cultured Laughter by Paul Niquette

...for observations about the relationship between culture and comedy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paul Niquette (talk Paul Niquette 21:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)• contribs) 21:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Established actors?

Robin Williams, Billy Crystal, and Eddie Murphy are listed as having been "established" actors who then went on to perform stand-up. I'm not sure about Crystal, but I'm almost the certain the other two started out doing stand-up in clubs before going on to acting. This should probably be double checked and corrected if needed.