Talk:Trout bum
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This article has been kept due to lack of consensus at this AFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:10, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Focus
If this article is a book stub, shouldn't it be about the book? The book is mentioned in passing and then listed in the bibliography. That doesn't qualify it as a book stub. Personally, I'm in disbelief that this wasn't deleted. Looking at the AfD, it looks like a pretty clear consensus to me. But beach bum is still around, so...
Anyway, this should either be focused on the book (including the information that is already here for context) or the stub tag should be removed and the "Bum" shouldn't be capitalized. Kafziel 19:45, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Modifications to remove one link but leave the others inappropriate given the general interest of all three. I added back the second link and also added a fourth, for 'Flyfish Radio,' as it is as relevant as the others to topic. I changed second link, 'The Itinerant Angler' description to remove OR/bad description. This appears to be a stable entry and it is drawing attention on flyfishing bulletin boards. I vote to keep.
I am surprised it hasn't been deleted, too. There is no reason for this page to be here without an entry for John Gierach.Sam 21:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Removed 'citation needed' stubs - the article clearly cites to the book referenced, and the book referenced is adequate support for the contentions made. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.64.185.82 (talk)
DELETE THIS EXAMPLE OF PERSONAL ATTACK: "Trout bumming often leads to alcoholism and other related substance abuses, but should not necessarily be treated as a root cause. " Sam 14:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lack of references
I should have placed a note here explaining my reason for placing the {{unref}} and {{fact}} tags in the article. My apologies.
The statement in question that I tagged as needing a citation, and Sam Wereb subsequently removed, essentially amounts to a claim requiring some measure of scientific proof, as it is currently worded. Trout Bum is not a scientific journal, and Gierach, great author that he is, is not a research psychologist. Lacking this type of reference, the statement amounts to unverified original research, which is not allowed in Wikipedia.
I have not read the book cover-to-cover in a while, but I do not recollect where, if anywhere, Gierach links being a trout bum as leading to alcoholism, either explicitly or implicitly. I will check through the book again, but I would appreciate it if someone could point to a specific page(s). Regardless, what I said above still stands. The book is not an authoritative source for what amounts to a scientific claim.
In general, the original research claim applies to the second and fourth paragraphs as well. Further citations are needed, or the material should be removed. --KeithB 16:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removed nonsense for the second time
I have had to remove this once again" Many trout bums genuinely deny that they have an addiction to trout fishing; nevertheless their behavior meets all of the definitional requirements of a dependency.
We don't know that many, or any, trout bums behave in any manners that define a clinical dependecy. The reasons we don't know this are (1) None of us are physicians, thus we cannot make medical diagnoses; (2) You are not a physician, thus you cannot make medical diagnoses; (3) Even if you, or any readers, had sufficient medical training to make medical diagnoses, even complicated ones such as the the above, such conclusions cannot be drawn from the material in this article because it does not have any sources and you cannot show any of your sources.
Don't put it back in. If you do put it in, I will consider it vandalism and report it.
[edit] Restarted the Article
I have removed all POV, unsourced claims and wild generalizations from the article. This should provide a fresh starting point for anyone who thinks they need to expand it. I've added a link to a future John Gierach article in case anyone would like to start that. Sam 16:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
