Talk:War on Terrorism

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[edit] Name Change

The House Armed Services Committee is banishing the global war on terror from the 2008 defense budget. [1] Might be worth adding, let me know if you would like me to edit the article. --Carl Von Clausewitz 11:28, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where are the Terrorist Casualties?

Usually in an article on a war you have casualites listed by side. I see the US and other allied side casualties and the (supposedly) innocent bystander casualties. Where is the Terrorist and sympathizer body count? How many of the innocent bystander casualties was caused by the Terrorists and how many by the US and allies? Seems a fair thing to ask. Otherwise its pretty meaningless to tally the losses, keeping score on one side and not the other. Asiaticus 03:55, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

But this isn't a traditional war - not in any sense. How do you tell who's a terrorist, who's a sympathizer, and who's innocent when no one's wearing any uniforms? It's not like Al Qaeda keeps tallies with the International Red Cross. --Brasswatchman 15:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you know them by their actions. Caught or killed in arms or in aid of doing terrorist acts that seems pretty clear. They must have some estimates at least. Asiaticus 06:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There are no estimates for that, and if you want to, blame the US military because they "don't do body counts" of enemies killed (because in Vietnam they realized they couldn't easily distinguish the number of civilians killed from the number of enemy). That means the only body counts, besides those of US and coalition allies killed, are just counts of the number of other dead because outside sources that weren't involved in a battle have no way of knowing who exactly was a "terrorist". Presumably the counts include everyone from civilians- vast majority of dead- to insurgent fighters. 172.147.227.44 15:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why are the Combatants listed as they are?

The US and Allied anti terrorist coallition is listed as ones conducting Operations while the Islamist Jihadi/Terrorist side are ones being operated on, as if they were just standing around idle, doing nothing, getting beat up on? Last I saw they were operating pretty well themselves. How about calling them by their names: Anti Terrorist Coallition and Islamist Jihadi (unless Osama & Co. has a prefered name)Asiaticus 04:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source on what Al Qaeda has been up to in the last few years, you should be talking to the FBI, not Wikipedia. --Brasswatchman 15:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats not an answer to my question.Asiaticus 01:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The answer to your question is that 1. They arent all Jihadist groups, 2. They arent all necessarilly working together, 3. They are being targetted in operations. This doesnt mean they are passively sitting by, the War on Terrorism is a campaign against these groups, and the groups being attacked will obviously fight back in the ways they do. Its the only label that can accurately represent whats going on. ~Rangeley (talk) 03:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

That isn't necessarily true, I think a lot of people would argue that the Ba'athist insurgency and the Al-sadr's army in Iraq have almost nothing to do with the originally stated goals of the war on terrorism (and are thus not combatants in it but rather a separate conflict from the war on terror). It's only an opinion that Iraq is part of GWOT, an opinion that was recently removed from the Iraq War article itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.58.28.162 (talk) 06:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

As stated on this article, the "War on Terror" is a specificly defined campaign being waged by the USA and allies. This has been discussed, and things stating the Iraq War to be a part of the campaign have not been removed via discussion. ~Rangeley (talk) 00:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The user that removed them claim he did so in accordance with a "poll", I have no idea where or what this poll was but it was your user name that added it back. 68.58.28.162

Yes, I saw his edit summary. For one thing, polls are non binding, for another, the last poll was held in June 2006 and 24-4 agreed with the thesis that the United States can define what is and is not a part of a campaign it wages. While this in itself was not binding, the discussion eventually yielded a consensus. The "WoT" is not a war, its not a conflict, its a military campaign - ie a super operation. Within this super operation are other smaller operations, such as Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Iraqi Freedom. People do occasionally remove it from the infobox, and it is either reverted or they begin a discussion which goes on for a while before its finally decided to re-add it. Its probably the least interesting yet most common issue one has to deal with when working on these articles. ~Rangeley (talk) 01:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Rangeley generally on this. Many of the same people who want to make it clear that the Bush Admin. declared and defined the WOT (true), perhaps too broadly and carelessly (POV) as Rumsfeld recently acknowledged, and then expanded it to include the war in Iraq (they did), are the same people who also want to say the Iraq war is not part of the WOT (POV and more important - logically inconsistent with the prior point as part of factual encyclopedia article). I think the most accurate and neutral thing to do in this article and similar ones is to make it clear that the terminology and the expansion to include Iraq were the choice of the Bush administation, for better or worse. See for example, the edit I made earlier today to the "Killed in..." section and heading.-JLSWiki 03:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know of anywhere that lists even estimates on terrorist casualties. While it's an interesting point, there is no way to correct it so I don't think it can be expected to be put in there. Al-qaeda rarely releases tapes concerning their own casualties (apparently they agree with retired General Tommy Franks about body counts?) I'd be interested to here more on this but I don't think the US military does terrorist body counts and Al-qaeda statements are rare. The best I was able to find was a Netscape article [2] claiming 4,000 al-qaeda dead from the Iraq campaign. Whoblitzell

Well he isnt a reliable source. 4,000 is ridiculously low. I recall seeing a figure stating it to have been 67,000 jailed/killed in mid 2006. Dont have the source on me though. Its always going to be estimates, and they are out there if you look hard enough. ~Rangeley (talk) 17:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree he isn't a reliable source but I have never seen an Al-qaeda membership estimate over 18,000. The figure of 67,000 probably including Al-qaeda as well as other factions. Whatever their casualty figure is, as far as I'm concerned, it isn't high enough. Whoblitzell 00:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the terrorist casualties article reference. It seems self defeating not to have an terrorist casualty count when one is being run on the friendly side that is being used against them. No doubt part of the reason this conflict is not doing well politically. Asiaticus 08:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 9/11 as cause needs POV check, citation

While this is taken for granted as a fact in America, a lot of the world doesn't feel that the 'war on terror' began with 9/11 but rather that it began with the US invasion of Afghanistan and/or prior covert activities in the region. This view has been notably expressed by Noam Chomsky in many of his writings. The view that 9/11 was caused by US foreign policy gone awry is also presented in Michael Moore's movie and numerous others. I think something a little more objective than the 9/11 attacks being listed alone without a citation can be forged out. I also believe OBL's issue of a declaration of jihad might also be considered the start of the war or perhaps the first WTC attacks. In short, to simply list 9/11 because it is the most common American POV, well thats not right.

"It all started on 9/11" is, more or less, an American perspective of GWOT, but not a global opinion. It seems sort of POVish to me and I think an alternate cause should be listed, however it seems to be routinely removed. I think we need a non-government citation for something like this.

Please note that this article does state that this campaign began on October 7th, 2001. Casus Belli is the justification put forward for a military campaign, or the stated cause. It was definately the stated cause for beginning this campaign. ~Rangeley (talk) 00:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I see, that was a vocabulary problem on my part -- disregard previous message. Thanks

I've been having a problem thinking about the infobox casus belli thing for a while. It seemed POV in some way because it was only providing the justification for one side in the conflict, right? That's unusual. We get America's reason but we don't get the three main reasons cited by UBL in his jihad message in the late 90s that we can assume inspired the 9/11 attacks, as well as much of the "terror" that followed (those being: US military presence in middle east; existence and policies of State of Israel and US-Israeli alliance; economic and cultural hegemony of the US and perceived influence over muslims worldwide). I added them in once and they were deleted. But then I realized what the oddity is. This article effectively presents one half of a war. As the intro states, the war on terror is defined to be whatever the US military says it is. This article is not POV (since late last year) because the intro says exactly what it's about. However it's still an oddity. I wonder what the fate of this infobox and this article (and this war, or at least its name) will be over the next five years. I can't imagine the war being defined in Wikipedia quite this way with a little more time passed.

In fact, most Americans (echoing the Bush Administration and NATO) feel that Al Qaeda "declared war" on the US with the 9/11 attacks. So according to that view, the US should have JOINED an existent war, rather than launching it. But of course Bush wanted to pre-empt their war rather than joining it, so he declared his own, against them. Even though they had supposedly already started the war (arguably in the previous decade, in fact, and in continuation from previous decades before that). So in always going with Bush's own definition of his own war, and thus leaving out the causes that inspire the "other side" in it (both of these aspects could constitute pro-American government POV), in effect this article also presents the war as if the US concocted it. So it's not POV for either side. It's just weird. Illustrates how both sides need each other. If they were involved in the same war, they wouldn't, one would want to win, but neither of them actually wants to win their wars, because they are each THEIR wars/jihads, chosen and defined by their own side and even given separate wiki pages.

But I can't think of anything else that could be done with it really, short of renaming it global war on terrorism and restricting it very narrowly to the official US military campaign, and creating another article about the concept of war on terrorism. 172.147.227.44 15:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Al-Qaeda flag

On the infobox, Iraqi insurgency is listed next to the Al-Qaeda flag. However, Al-Qaeda (and other foreign combatants) form only a small minority (~1200 men) among the Sunni insurgents. Furthermore, even among the Sunni population Al-Qaeda is disliked.[3] I will remove the flag as misleading since it does not represent the true Iraqi insurgency.--JyriL ^talk 20:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Al qaeda in Iraq is a notable contingent of belligerent opposing the U.S. The flag should remain. --Tbeatty 20:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It is only one of many factions. Even more important, many of Sunni insurgency does not support Al-Qaeda. If fact, there are reports that Iraqi Sunnis and foreign fighters are fighting each other![4] Why use only one flag to represent all? It is very misleading and POV.--JyriL ^talk 21:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Media influences

The "media influences" section, which was introduced in these edits, seems to assign a lot of significance to the views of one writer. Gazpacho 06:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

Flags – as there is a link to ‘War on Terrorism: Allies’ the flags should be limited, in my opinion, to countries with armed forces involved combat operations against ‘terrorists’ (such as USA, UK, Canada, Netherlands) and or nations where terrorism is a significant part of their security situation (such as Pakistan, Afghanistan). If nations with just small contributions to operations like ISAF are included, the list would be too long and would negate the need for a ‘War on Terrorism: Allies’ link. Chwyatt 11:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Combatants

Hey, I really think that the combatants list in this page is biased and inconsistent. I think the list should be consistent with the combantants lists in the pages involving theatre of operation with nations organized by troop contribution and diplomatic support while the rest would be organized alphabetically, but Al Qaeda on top.23prootie 02:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree only those listed in the article should be included, but it should be in alphabetical order. --Nuclear~~Zer0~~ 17:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename with "Global"

Te official name is "Global War on Terrorism." ~ UBeR 02:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Its not the most common name, however. ~Rangeley (talk) 02:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It is actually. Should we change the George W. Bush article name to Bush, because that's what most people use to refer to the current U.S. President? No. Lets please start thinking with rationality. ~ UBeR 19:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). It actually uses an example involving Bush, "George W. Bush (not George Walker Bush.)" And it states "Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things." Thats why we dont go with "Bush," but dont go with "Walker Bush" either. ~Rangeley (talk) 21:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I know Wikipedia's policies. Global War on Terrorism is not only the official, proper, and more formal name, it also the more used. Again, rationality, please. ~ UBeR 21:40, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Rationality...

Google hits: War on terrorism: 1,320,000 Global war on terrorism: 1,040,000 War on terror: 16,500,000 Global war on terror: 1,050,000 Yahoo hits: War on terrorism:9,900,000 Global war on terrorism:876,000 War on terror:23,100,000 Global war on terror:1,360,000

I think that it largely apparent which is the more used term... Sfacets 05:52, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:GOOGLE. Funny, nonetheless. Whatever the case, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia is no place to endorse ignorance. Now, of course, the term with the lesser amount of words will have more Web sites. Try it yourself. Look up "Bush", and then look up "George Bush". Quite simply, your point is moot. Mine is not. ~ UBeR 17:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course the search results are of indicative value only, but it is a step up on your attempt at justifying the name change. (also note the difference between searching for a single word (Bush) vs three words (war on terrorism).Sfacets 18:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it applies to nearly everything. To digress, try looking up "Operation Enduring Freedom" versus "Enduring Freedom." Case in point. ~ UBeR 19:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

"Global war on terror" is a specific phrase used specifically by the American administration. It's an American thing, not a worldwide thing. Compare the use of the phrases in the British government: [5] [6]
In addition, "terror" makes even less sense than "terrorism" as something to declare a war on. Using the word Terrorism clearly makes more sense and fits better with the title of the article. --Mr. Billion 18:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Who said anything about "terror"? ~ UBeR 19:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

That's what you changed the article to say. --Mr. Billion 05:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

And it's something I personally changed back. If you couldn't have noticed, it was the result of a revert of a previous, where it was changed. ~ UBeR 06:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

This conversation is quite ludicrious Glen 22:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

As is the proposition that started it. --Mr. Billion 05:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm so sorry for suggesting that the article be named after its proper name. ~ UBeR 06:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

It's okay. Just don't do it again. --Mr. Billion 06:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] India

Does anyone here realize how close India and Pakistan came to nuking each other in 2002? They called it the War on Terror (or at least India did), so I put in a section on the events in new Delhi, Kashmir and Gujarat. Ericl 03:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

This isnt an article for everything ever called a war on terror, its for the specific us led campaign. ~Rangeley (talk) 21:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Rangeley, the Gujarat Riots had nothing to do with the War on Terrorism, they were entirely linked to local tensions in India, therefore, it should not be included in the War on Terrorism article, it makes no real sense to do so ThaGrind 13:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Common Sense

The chapter titled Common Sense is an opinion. This should be deleted. Does anyone agree? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.167.107.118 (talk) 13:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Ba'athist Iraq as terrorist organisation

Why is Ba'athist Iraq included as "Enemy" in war on terror? I mean, by now it is quite clear that Saddam did not support Al-Qaeda, and that he didn't have no WMD, isn't it? --89.172.41.218 16:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Enemies" - NPOV?

And, another one. Isn't the list in the infobox titled "Enemies" a bit POV? I mean, from Taliban fighter point of view, Taliban and not quite "enemies", are they? We all agree that Nazis were bad guys in WWII, but we still don't label them as "Enemies" in WWII infobox... --89.172.41.218 16:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

How about "bad guys"? --Bobak 00:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:War on Terrorism: include Iraq?

Reading over this page I see this issue has been discussed ad nauseum, but I'd like to get a conversation going over whether {{War on Terrorism}} needs to include events in Iraq. I feel that leaving our Iraq would leave an incomplete picture. However, unlike this article, which is quite nuanced about Iraq, the template needs to be a lot simpler, so I'm not sure if it would be excessively POV if it was just inserted in there.

For comparison, {{World War II}} includes such conflicts as the French-Thai War and the Ecuadorian-Peruvian War. The former is only slightly relevant to WWII at large (fall of France leading to weak position in Indochina), while the latter seems completely unrelated except for the date.

My personal opinion is that regardless of whether the 2003 invasion of Iraq can be reasonably included as a War on Terrorism campaign, the current situation in Iraq, as a training ground for jihadist groups, makes it the likely central focus of any present and future US counterterrorism anyways.

See Template talk:War on Terrorism#Inclusion criteria Kelvinc 03:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

It is a part of the campaign, which this article is about. The campaign is a government program, basically, and we have already provided documentation showing that it is a designated part. ~Rangeley (talk) 20:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map caption

User:Sfacets decided to remove the word 'Islamist' from the caption showing the countries of the world that had been hit by international terrorism. Without the word Islamist it becomes meaningless - why not then include non-Islamist terrorist incidents in Colombia or Sri Lanka for example. I believe the term 'Islamist' is widely understood and accepted here, so can I have a concensus here that the word stays? Thanks Kransky 10:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Besides the fact that the term is highly controversial (See Islamism, how can we ascertain that the countries shown were solely the targets of "Islamist" groups? Perhaps we could name here the countries affected by this category of terrorism here and compare them to the map? Sfacets 20:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ireland involved in this war?

Ok once again Ireland has been added into the list of Combatants. I attempted to remove this error, when, again it was put back with the justification being that "They participate in ISAF", well I don't think the contributor quite gets the significance of Ireland being labelled as a participant in a war. The Republic of Ireland is a Neutral country it has not been involved in any war since it's independence, it has been involved in many UN peacekeeping missions, but not in wars.

Now as to the claim that Ireland is participating in the International Security Assistance Force, well the only source given for this is a 2002 article which claims that 7(!?!) Irish Defence Forces members would be going to Afghanistan as staff in the "information operations section" of ISAF HQ, and as liaisons. In other words, they are not by any means involved in any combat (as a "list of Combatants" would imply), So since when did 7 desk jobs constitute fighting in a war? I will state my reason for removing Ireland from this list again, Ireland is (or was) involved with the ISAF in an extremely minor way, that Does Not equate to saying that Ireland is engaged in a war! (i.e. the War on Terrorism).

To give an example, Irish troops were in the United Nations Protection Force in the Balkans, but the Republic of Ireland was not involved in the Yugoslav wars. It's quite a big difference from going on a Peacekeeping mission (especially one where they're not even armed...) and actively engaging in fighting a war. Likewise Ireland was in UNIFIL, but that does not make Ireland a Belligerent Party in the Lebanese Civil War or the 1982 Lebanon War, etc. Ireland's involvement with the ISAF is already listed in the ISAF article, and that is where it should be left. For these reasons I’ll be removing them again unless somehow, someone comes up with some very convincing reason why they shouldn't be removed. --Hibernian 03:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Well said Hibernian. Ireland is not a combatant (engaged in combat operations). Even if Ireland is contributing to ISAF, it is not involved in combat operations as part of ISAF 3 in southern and eastern Afghanistan like the Canadians, Brits, Dutch and Americans are (Coalition combat operations in Afghanistan in 2006). And this is no disrespect to the good men and women of the Irish Defence Forces in Afghanistan (or indeed personnel from Luxembourg or Iceland). But list of combatants needs to be kept under control or it becomes meaningless. Chwyatt 10:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Luxembourg? Iceland? The list of ‘combatants’ is just silly.

Luxembourg makes it on a list of ‘combatants’ (now removed) because it has 10 peacekeepers in a relatively safe part of Afghanistan? This is just silly.

I think the list of combatants should be limited to nations that are currently involved in significant numbers in active combat operations (like the US, Canadians, Brits, Dutch etc). Or nations with significant domestic terrorism problems involving major domestic military forces (like India or the Philippines). Or were involved in past operations in significant numbers (like Germany in 2002).

Maybe larger ISAF contributors, but for goodness sake, not a dozen men and a jeep!

Chwyatt 10:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, also remember this is a WAR and by putting someone on the "combatants" side you obviously say they are not neutral. The war on terror is not a peacekeeping operation. Peacekeepers are usually considered neutral, even though obviously Iceland or Luxembourg or wherever is not going to be an Al Qaeda sympathizer, there is no reason necessarily to consider them a US/UK sympathizer either. Just because many nations may be supporting the official government of Afghanistan with a bit of manpower, does not mean they are engaged in this international "war". In fact to list them like this promotes a misconception that all Westerners=Americans, and is exactly what gets peacekeeping/aid workers of these countries who are only trying to do humanitarian work, targeted by terrorists there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.163.181.65 (talk • contribs).

Well, there are two questions. One is, are they combattants? Obviously yes, they contributed forces, they are a combattant. The more important question is, do we have to put every combattant into the infobox? The answer to that is no. Having every combattant is a bit much, instead the larger contributors and main nations should be put in the infobox, while the rest are linked to as "others." ~Rangeley (talk) 00:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Forces = combatants? I don’t think that automatically applies, especially if some forces are sent to Afghanistan to undertake reconstruction work, and not to seek out and combat Taliban/al-Qaeda. Some forces have been sent to Afghanistan with a remit to avoid active combat operations, only to defend themselves. And if they are not in a ‘hot’ area, then they don’t engage in combat. Military forces can do peaceful tasks so are not combatants, even if they are capable of combat. I think the task the unit does defines if it is a combatant, not the unit itself. I suppose it is a matter of interpretation. Chwyatt 13:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Its one thing if the troops are seperate from ISAF, but in this case all nations listed are a part of ISAF. ~Rangeley (talk) 20:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why was Russia removed from the list of Combatants?

Because some people hold grudges against Russia, and they are not fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan, they are still a part of The Global War on Terror. I am so tired of people misunderstanding. People are removing Russia from there all the time, mostly because they think Putin is hiding Iraq's weapons. Wake up, people! Those are PRIVATE weapon dealers, and they exist everywhere. in the US too. Russia are fighting actively against terrorists in Chechnya, now you might disagree, but they are concidered terrorist due to their bombings and taking hostages(in schools and theaters and hospitals), and what Russia is doing in there is allowed, no matter how bad it is. The law says that Russia can do extreme measures, and anything she chooses to do to protect her borders and sovereignity. Therefore, Russia are active in fighting terrorists. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.88.52.125 (talk) 13:50, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] israel is the cause of terror

i seached for any accusations that us foreign policy that favors israel over the palestinians as the cause of terror against the US and i didnt find any. this article needs to include the fact that it is Israel and its control of US Foreign Policy in the Middle East and the mistreatment of the Palestinians as the true reason we are attacked by Islamic radicals and not because we are a free country. 208.39.128.10 18:36, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your input - would you happen to have a citation supporting this view? Addhoc 19:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

yes, just ask the terrorists. nowhere in any of bin ladens speeches does he say he hates freedom or america because it is a free country. bush says it because heaven forbid you blame israel for the things they do to innocent people with america's military and financial support. we always just express regret if we say anything at all. oh, and you're welcome for my input. Keltik31 21:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

You could add a quote of bin Laden. But it should be offered as his opinion or rhetoric. By your reasoning americans can reasonably expect to get blown up in a restaurant by a hassidic Jew if Hezbollah doesn't disarm. I personally don't think mass murdering clerical fascist are credible.

It's always nice to see the pro-terrorist anti semite view point well represented on wikipedia. Judgesurreal777 04:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I was asked for clarification one what I meant by this, so I will explain; I was disputing the posters claim that America and Israel are to blame for why they were attacked on 9/11, which is indeed because of the extreme views of the terrorists and their desire to subjugate the world to a kind of totalitarian Islam, and not the terrorists self proclaimed "grievances" which they change every year to justify their atrocities. To argue that the fault for the instigation of the War on Terrorism lies with the West, and not with the terrorist themselves, is false, and to argue so is playing into the hands of terrorists who wish us to castigate ourselves for our minor faults rather than defeat them for their atrocities. No one should support the terrorist view point of "Blame America First", or Israel for that matter. Hope that is a bit clearer. Judgesurreal777 11:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

i see. so you are antisemetic if you disagree with anything that israel does? that would make a lot of jews antisemetic. the irish republican army resists british rule in the north or ireland. it is the treatment of catholics at the hands of the protestant government which drives the things that the IRA does. just as the things that israel does in the occupied territories drives the things that the likes of bin laden do. islam does not cause terrorism. injustice causes acts of violence. if we have terror because of islam, then what do we have because of judaism? greed? tell me. israels treatment of the palestinians is the cause of terror in the middle east. lets not forget that the zionists used terrorism to get their state as well. i dont believe in killing innocent people. but i also do not agree with expecting people to sit on thier hands when their homes are destroyed and their children are shot like israel does on a regular basis as we in america say nohing. Keltik31 18:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why was my game link removed?

Heya. I placed a disambig link at the top of the page for the game War on Terror, since War On Terror redirects straight to this page. The game, which is a satire on the concept of the war on terror, has received a great deal of international press, as well as some infamy for being banned from many major toy and game fairs etc.. D.valued 18:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Because noone except you sees the game as notable enough for a disambiguation link. ~Rangeley (talk) 00:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ISAF part of "War on terrorism"?

I'd say they are not. Can someone give me a source or something to support that ISAF actually is part of it? Otherwise I think they should be removed from this article. --Merat 22:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I checked with the ISAF homepage, the word "terrorism" isn't mentioned in the mission page. --Merat 11:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about Colombia?

Is Colombia part of this war? I think so... [7] --((F3rn4nd0 ))^{(BLA BLA BLA)} 23:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

What has Columbia to do with this? We might as well add the PRC on the "anti-terrorist" side and the Chinese democracy movement and Tibetian separatists as terrorists. Everyone will claim they are fighting a "War on terrorism" if they get a chance, even though most likely they are only fighting political opposition. Should Wikipedia support this crackdown on dissidents all over the world? --Merat 11:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GWOT vs. GSAVE

At some point in 2005, I believe the administration officially changed the name from "Global War on Terror" to "Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism." Obviously, the name change didn't stick, but it's worth mention. Indeed, this article redirects from "GSAVE", yet GSAVE isn't mentioned in the article. Therefore I suggest someone add a piece to this article documenting this attempted name change. Here's a couple of links to get started: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4772826 208.64.241.229 17:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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