Talk:White slavery
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Moving this apparent nonsense here from "white slave trade" article:
- The White slave trade is on a steap increase in many parts of the world, especially in Eastern Europe and Greece, where women sell at a rate 1000$ per one or even lower. The Southeastern Asia is another source of white slaves. They are mostly imported by Western European countries - the white slave business is among the three most profitable forms of illegal business - rivaled only by drug and weapon smuggling. In recent years, Israel has become an international centre of white slave trade. This is thought to be related to the large Russian community in the country (Israel's role has been subject to widespread attention and study, for one example see [1]).
So, not knowing much about this, why is this "apparent nonsense"? Insufficiently referenced? Graft
I didn't say it was apparent nonsense, someone else did. But I think I can answer. First, consider the source (a banned user who I just banned again). Not reliable. Second, spelling errors: 'steap increase'? Certainly some reliable information on this topic would be welcomed. Jimbo Wales 18:12 Feb 14, 2003 (UTC)
there is information provided in this talk page (erased - see my previous post) which is from the reference on the page. jimbo - you should read your own disclaimer - you are erasing valid information.
- I dislike the practice of reverting changes solely on the basis of who made them. Though it is easier for us to judge content on the basis of who wrote it, it can result in our seeing bias where none exists. Unless we have some other, non-personality based reason to think this text is suspect, we ought to leave it in place. Graft
claims supported by scientific evidence should not be removed by the NPOV policy.
- I totally agree. Too bad you don't give any scientific evidence to back up your assertions. -- Zoe
References?
Here are some references you might use. It appears that Israel has become conspicuous as a place where White sexual slavery is carried on.
"A modern form of slavery," The Jerusalem Post, 13 January 1998. "Traffickers' New Cargo: Naive Slavic Women," New York Times, 11 January 1998. http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Israel_Sex_Slavery.html http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1374
White slavery refers to the indentured servitude of Caucasian-Americans, who were treated worse than Negro slaves. Former president Andrew Johnson was a White Slave.
Roadrunner 01:51, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- This is a repeated vandalism from quite similar IP. Nothing more, see history. Oneliner 11:30, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
To what does the country song "16 tons" refer to, then?
The sharecropping system and other practices which arose in the South after slavery was abolished, which while primarily affecting African-Americans did affect whites as well.
[edit] pov/unbalanced
most of this page is devoted to dicounting white slavery, with a short reference to "sex slavery".
This page also smacks of racism -- the panicked, bigoted white folks afraid of the chinese making their women slaves?
There is nothin POV or unbalanced about this page. The white slave trade has never historically existed. During the progressive Era a investigation into the white slave trade revealed that it did not exist and that women were driven into prostituion by economic reasons. Furrthermore the white slave trade was used by "the panicked, bigoted white folks" to attack the evil Jews and Chinese. When something is a fact it is not a POV and all historical sources support this article. Furthermore the anonymous user who put up the POV has done nothing on wikipedia but attack african american related articles.--Gary123 22:22, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
LOL, the Barbary Pirates are a fantasy then? Speaking of which, I think this article should contain a link (even if only for the purposes of disambiguation) to the Barbary Pirates.
If it doesn't refer to race, then what does it refer to? —Charles P. (Mirv) 04:13, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
Not a POV??? Iain - a reader
The White slave trade did exist historically but really not in the C19th moral panic surrounding the numerous opium dens of London- as described. There was a large number of endentured white slave labour in the West Indies and Americas before the African Slave trade took off on large scale. Also there was a white slave trade in Morocco for centuries. See the Barbary Pirates or Corsairs and new-ish book out called 'White Gold'. This only ended in 1813 when Tangiers was levelled by British warships. There is evidence that this was a Jihadi adventure by these Islamic slavers.
The contemporary 'white slave trade' is largely run by organised crime in the former Eastern Block and part of the bigger problem of people trafficking in Europe. And there is no evidence at all that I have seen that Israel, although there is organised crime there as elsewhere, is a part of that.
There could and perhaps should be a full and proper article done on this subject. There is an expansion of Slavery studies away from the narrow focus on the Atlantic trade that has missed out a great deal of the history of slavery in the Islamis world, the Far East, to the Americas (that wasn't African in origin), the endentured labour that replaced official slavery in the Empire that effected many thousands of Indians for example and not least the contemporary problem in Europe. Africa still has an on-going black slave trade too.
[edit] A bit about christian and white slaves
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm
http://www.britannica.com/shakespeare/article-13548
http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/alpha/algiers1816.htm
See also the life of Cervantes (Don Quixote's author), slave during 5 years in Algiers (he managed to pay a ransom before the unsold slaves were sent to Constantinople)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14036a.htm
The Trinitarians, founded in 1198 by St. John of Matha and St. Felix of Valois, established hospitals for slaves at Algiers and Tunis in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries; and from its foundation until the year 1787 it redeemed 900,000 slaves. The Order of Our Lady of Ransom (Mercedarians), founded in the thirteenth century by St. Peter Nolasco, and established more especially in France and Spain, redeemed 490,736 slaves between the years 1218 and 1632. To the three regular vows its founder had added a fourth, "To become a hostage in the hands of the infidels, if that is necessary for the deliverance of Christ's faithful." Many Mercedarians kept this vow even to martyrdom. Another order undertook not only to redeem captives, but also to give them spiritual and material assistance. St. Vincent of Paul had been a slave at Algiers in 1605, and had witnessed the sufferings and perils of Christian slaves. At the request of Louis XIV, he sent them, in 1642, priests of the congregation which he had founded. Many of these priests, indeed, were invested with consular functions at Tunis and at Algiers. From 1642 to 1660 they redeemed about 1200 slaves at an expense of about 1,200,000 livres. But their greatest achievements were in teaching the Catechism and converting thousands, and in preparing many of the captives to suffer the most cruel martyrdom rather than deny the Faith.
[edit] Not refering to race?
Is there anybody else interested in bringing this article into a form that makes sense and doesn't include nonesense like the "white slavery does not refer to race"-sentence?
[edit] Expert needed
I asked for an Expert on this topic for the following reasons:
- the article is quiete short
- the different definitions from different speakers could be made clearer, maybe with a short statement on mainstream-history-pov on these isues (revisionist say this ... what does mainstream history think about it?)
- the section about white slavery in the sense of trafficking in women and forced prostitution and the related history could made clearer
--> I could take care of the latter, but I would need someone to proofread my text, because I am not a native speaker, and I can't say anything about the white-slavery-definitions of revisionist and co
--Enfiladissa 07:40, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] White Slaves
Err.. the history of White Slavery is probably as old as the history of white People. Arabs took white Slaves, White Western Europeans took Eastern Europeans as slaves. Most of the slaves in the Roman Empire are believed to have been white, not too sure about Greece. Firther to this, dear old Ireland was at one time the capital of the White Slave trade. --Irishpunktom\talk 10:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
- true, people that we would consider "white" today have been enslaved for as long as there's been slavery. but there are concepts inextricably tied to the use of "white slavery" as we understand it:
- that white people are a distinct grouping that transcends national and cultural boundaries.
- that enslaving white people is somehow different from enslaving non-white people, different enough to require special distinction.
. . .ideas which arose in a specific context, you can guess which, and are not relevant elsewhere. a roman would have considered his african and german slaves equally barbaric and equally deserving of enslavement, and he would have used the same terminology for both.
honestly, i think use of the term is an expression (albeit an unconscious one, usually) of racism, though it's less obviously offensive than "nigger". —Charles P. (Mirv) 09:33, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
- that's a question of theory reproduction vs. theory generation. The term 'white slavery' is used by historians and others for the discription of different phenomenas, plenty of others have analized the term and its related dicourses as an expression of rasism (more or less unconscious) ... --Enfiladissa 11:04, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Slavs
the word slave comes from the practice of taking people from the slavic nations as slaves. just wanted to point that out. this article needs serious revistion. Lue3378 07:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Qestion from Japanese wikipedian
Nice to meet you.I am Japanese wikipedian. I hear that the word [] also means women who were forced to be engaged to prostitution by Japanese yakuza. Is it true?61.205.178.150 08:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
- Technically, yes. In fact, the color of the woman is irrelevant in the word's usage. But the historical origin of using "white" in the word was in order to distinguish this particular kind of slavery from the traditional slavery of most black people in the Americas. Another reason forced prostitution was called "white slavery" was to provoke a sense of horror into the minds (both individually and collectively) of the public, given that it was "unthinkable" that a white person (especially a white woman) could or would ever be subjected to this sort of torment. Naturally, this was a frequent topic of tabloids and pulp comics, and additionally it was often used in anti-Chinese and anti-semitic propaganda--which ethnic group was targeted in this manner depended mainly on which side of the continent the newspapers were being printed from. The Mann Act was a product of the public paranoia created by the media publishers and religious groups, and the abuses of this law are legendary. Does that answer all of your questions? Sweetfreek 10:33, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for your answer. I suppose that the events which you mention are all phenomenon of 19th century and early 20th century. In Japanese wikipedia's article 'ホワイトスレイブリ'=[white slavery] we discuss that "this word is historical or active". In 1980s American journalists David・E・Kaplan and Alec・Dubro used the word 'white slave' for victims of Japanese yakuza's sex trade in their best seller book 'Yakuza : The Explosive Account of Japan's Criminal Underworld'. But recently when State Department criticize Japanese sex business, they always use not 'white slave' but 'sexual slave'. Do English spoken people use the words 'white slave' and 'white slavery' still now?61.205.178.150 15:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
- English-speaking people still do use the term "white slavery", but it's considerably less common now because of the racial connotation.--Pharos 09:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Political Correctness has rendered this article useless.
I removed the following, as it insinuates that the term is only used by white supremacists, and that the only people who recognize the existence of white slavery in history are white supremacist revisionists.
[edit] Hate Groups
The term white slavery is also used in revisionist and white supremacy literature to refer to any slavery of people with light skin.
I also removed this one, because it basically claims that the only "white slaves" were mixed with other races, and the title suggests that these slaves were only seen in the South.
[edit] In the American South
During the period of slavery in the United States, there were some slaves who had mostly white ancestry and/or appeared white, due to the legal doctrine of partus. The existence of these slaves was highly emphasised in anti-slavery propaganda.
This article SERIOUSLY needs a makeover, and not by some dogmatic PC teenager with paleface guilt and tunnel vision. Indentured servitude and sharecropping are completely ignored, as are Irish coffin ships. If no one else does, I'm probably going to rewrite this article once I get the energy to do enough research, though an expert would still be desperately needed.
-That being said, the genotype of all us French-Canadians has just been sold for 12 million$. At about 6 million inbreds on medicare who only get prescribed neuroleptics even for occasionnal sleeplessness, only 2,00$ a pop for some genetic info and a lifetime of prescribed neurotoxins. Maybe I am a little dramatic, I didn't know we were such great guinea pigs. This is not about racism as such, it's, as always, about money and power and in this case some Swedish BioScience company named Genizon or GalileoGenome. Check it out please.
[edit] Use of the term by proslavery writers in the antebellum South
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not a professional expert on the subject, just an undergraduate American History major...) but I was taught that the term "white slavery" was also used by pro-slavery rhetoricians in the antebellum South to refer to northern industrial workers who were "enslaved" in their factory jobs, thus contrasting the South's "compassionate" and "mild" form of legal slavery with the de facto "white slaves" of the North. (Possible references on the subject could be found in antebellum newspapers from a large southern city, such as Richmond, VA.) As it stands, this article refers only to prostitution, not the use of the term as a rhetorical device. Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sarichkaa (talk • contribs) 06:28, 25 December 2006 (UTC).
- So the South was Marxist? 74.225.130.13 07:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
