Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Alternative music/Archive1

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Contents 1 Preliminary tasks 2 The Smashing Pumpkins 3 Red Hot Chili Peppers 4 Ska? 5 Radiohead overview and influence 6 Indie Rock 7 Green Day 8 CotW 9 Elliott Smith 10 The Smiths 11 Alternative rock a Good Article candidate 12 COTW Templates 13 New user 14 FAC for The Smashing Pumpkins 15 Banner with assessment 16 Britpop 17 Nirvana on the front page 18 Project Directory 19 Smells Like Teen Spirit 20 Distinguishing genres and styles, and ending edit wars 21 Wikipedia Day Awards 22 Peer review of Frank Black 23 Alternative music portal 24 Re:U2 25 Articles can now be rated 26 C86 27 Flags 28 Big Hand 29 Template:Wikiproject Alternative music 30 Project assessment rankings 31 You seem to have ignored Joy Division 32 COTW (for reals now) 33 Butthole Surfers 34 Alec Eiffel 35 Portal peer review 36 blink-182 Pop Punk vs Punk Rock vote 37 Category with userbox 38 Sebadoh Album Covers 39 Autographs?

[edit] Preliminary tasks

First off, if anyone can contribute pictures or soundclips to the Good Articles listed on this page, do so. If you need suggestions for any particular group, post a request here.

Now, for an initial project (if anyone is interested): The Cure really needs to be whipped up into shape, and I think it can be done relatively easily. If someone is willing to make a band template listing members, singles, albums, and so forth, I can take care of copyediting and combing over the main text of the article. Someone else might want to clean up the Discography. WesleyDodds

• I was thinking moving the discography to its own page, as was done with New Order (see New Order discography). Folkor 16:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead. The page is pretty huge. Still, a template would work well for easy navigation between band members, albums, and singles. WesleyDodds 04:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

What exactly are you thinking of in regards to a template? I don't know if I know what an ideal one would look like. Do you a good example I could examine? Folkor 16:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

They're all listed at Band templates. Good reference examples would be the Smashing Pumpkins and New Order templates. WesleyDodds 16:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay - one of those! I couldn't think of what you were talking about, but now I understand. Sorry for the lack of comprehension. I could try to make one, but I never have before. Folkor 18:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

After you split off the Cure discography into a separate article, can you do the same for Smashing Pumpkins? The main articles should subsequently just list the main albums while also providing a a link to the new articles. WesleyDodds 23:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Smashing Pumpkins

I'm currently working to turn The Smashing Pumpkins into a Featured Article. I have enough resources at the moment for the main body of the article, but I need help with some things. Can anyone provide more soundclips and images? Album covers are fine, but it'd be nice to have more pictures of the band, especially from the Siamese Dream and Adore eras. Additionally, the only soundclips currently up come from Siamese Dream. I'm also trying to find the source of Billy Corgan's quote that Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness was devised as "The Wall for the 90's". I mean, I have plenty of sources verifying that he said it, but it's not clear when he actually said it. So far I've learned it was uttered no later than February 1995. I'd appreciate any assistance. WesleyDodds 05:06, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

A transcript including Billy saying something like that can be found on the web on a number of places. Apparently it was said in a segment of an MTV Rockumentary featuring the Pumpkins, which aired on October 17th, 1995. I don't know if you know that already, or if that's even the quote you're looking for, but I thought it might help. The transcript can be found here and here. – Cambrant 21:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Hot Chili Peppers

I began cleanup on the RHCP article in the history section. Before [1], after [2] any thoughts? maxcap 19:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks pretty good after cutting out the unnecessary bits. now it needs some grammar fixes and some POV toned down. WesleyDodds 06:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

It's odd that the POV seems to come hand in hand with the poor writing... Compare the Philosophy sections of [3] to the current one, for example. Xinit 00:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, it looks like during a fix the page was reverted to an earlier version before your changes. WesleyDodds 06:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid a revert war. My last revision is [4], maxcap 19:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I took a look at it right now to follow up on the whole External Links debate. From a prose point of view, the History section is a total mess. Unnecessary sections, short paragraphs, and so forth. I'll probably take a crack at fixing it up in a few days. WesleyDodds 10:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ska?

Why isn't Third Wave Ska listed under fushion Alternative rock genres? Chubdub 20:40, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be more appropriately listed under the Punk tempate? WesleyDodds 05:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Ska Punk would perhaps be listed under the Punk template, but Ska Punk is merely a sub-genre of Third Wave Ska, which is a genre

that also incoporates ska-core. Chubdub 00:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Well it seems that, according to the articles, third wave ska, is a subgenre of ska punk/core maxcap 01:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I retract the above, it looks like they're all pretty much the same thing. maxcap 01:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Mabye this project should be called alternative rock instead of alternative music. bcos alt music includes alt hip-hop, rnb etc. St. Jimmy 11:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Er, no it doesn't. Anyways, the official name of the project is "WikiProject on Alternative/Indie rock music". WesleyDodds 00:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Radiohead overview and influence

Should Radiohead overview and influence be its own article? WesleyDodds 10:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably not...it's reads like an essay and has some POV issues. I found it interesting being a fan, but some of the major points could be integrated into either the main Radiohead page or their album pages. maxcap 15:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indie Rock

A lot of articles about indie bands (Arctic Monkeys, We Are Scientists etc. seem to undergo occasional edit wars over whether indie rock is a type of music, or the name given to an independant-signed band. The article suggests that indie rock is a musical genre, but which is the prefered meaning? smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 22:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Indie rock is definitely a genre. Indie (music) primarily deals with the status of a band (Which would be those indepedently-signed bands), but it's not a genre. Certainly indie rock can mean both, but it's primarily a genre term, so when Modest Mouse signed to a major label, they were no longer an indie band but they still played indie rock. Follow me?

And someone should tell the editors of the Arctic Monkeys page that the band is on an indie label in their home country (Domino Records) and merely have a major label distribution deal outside of England, so they're still indie. WesleyDodds 05:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Question. What is "indie rock"? I don't understand. I look everywhere. All that I can tell is that it is "rock" performed by an "indie" band. But many people are suggesting that "indie rock", "indie pop", or "indie (genre)" can describe bands that are not, in fact, "indie".

So, what is "indie rock"?–Aaripper 20:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I's pretty much what you said. it's alternative rock bands on indie labels that are largely unconnected from the mainstream. Indie rock subgenres include lo-fi, slowcore, the post-punk revival, and indie pop. Beyond that, it's hard to be more precise, since the US and UK have somewhat differing notions on what "indie" means in terms of music genres. WesleyDodds 00:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Green Day

Green Day has recently been delisted from Wikipedia:Good articles for reasons listed on its talk page. I think that's a shame, and I really want to work on getting it back to that status. Right now major problems include constant vandalism by unregistered users, lack of inline citations, and some non POV statements scattered throughout. I can dig up some sources, but is anyone else interested on working on this article? WesleyDodds 02:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CotW

So, this was mentioned over on the /Strategy page, but thought more eyes would see it here... I think that we should try to move articles to becoming Good Articles on a much more active basis. Drawing everyone's eyes to bands that they may not be fans of by way of a collaboration of the week for WP:ALM. I've taken the liberty of adding it to the Collaboration category, and sketching in a rough layout. --Xinit 19:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it'd be very helpful for everyone to take a gander at that page. WesleyDodds 04:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elliott Smith

Elliott Smith is currently up for Featured Article review. If you have any comments or assistance to offer to the review, please do so. WesleyDodds 09:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just re-nominated the article. Please drop in and comment! - Phorque 19:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Smiths

Is anyone here a fan of The Smiths/Morrissey? We need someone to go into the articles and cite all those books mentioned as references. Also, a lot of Smiths singles need pages. WesleyDodds 03:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I already have already made "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore", and I am a smiths fan. I am actually trying to clean up the Morrissey page. I don't have any of those books, so I don't know what help I'd be.-- ¢² Connor K.   18:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative rock a Good Article candidate

There's not much this article needs to meet the criteria, but would someone like to copyedit this article? WesleyDodds 10:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COTW Templates

Suggestions / help welcome.

Current Collaboration Template:AMCOTWCurrent

Past Collaboration Template:AMCOTWPast

-- Xinit 00:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New user

I'm a new user on here but this is an area of interest to me and I'd like to help out if possible. Is there a page which I should read to understand how these projects work and what I can do? Xobxela 08:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The best overview of how these projects work is Wikipedi:WikiProjects.

Except for a few of the most active projects (of which this is not one), I've found that the most useful thing is that this talk page provides a place to ask questions that seem liable not to be answered on the talk page of the relevant article, or which span multiple articles.

Also, on the project page you will notice requests for expansion or creation. If there are any of those you think you can work on, great! - Jmabel | Talk 17:20, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FAC for The Smashing Pumpkins

The Smashing Pumpkins has been nominated as a Featured Article candidate. Please leave feedback at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Smashing Pumpkins. And if anyone could look up citations for their sales figures, that would be very helpful. WesleyDodds 10:36, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

• For record sales, we could say that they sold over 12 million records in the US by adding up all of the RIAA certifications. Not as powerful of a statement as 40 million worldwide, but its accurate. Teemu08 20:30, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Banner with assessment

Considering that there are a number of people interested in this project, I suggest expanding the banner to include article assessment on rank, importance, and whether an infobox is needer. See the sources for Template:Electronic-music-project and Template:WPBiography for more information. 24.126.199.129 20:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• I'd like to see this implemented, too Teemu08 04:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Britpop

I am currently overhauling Britpop; with the resources available on the genre, I'm aiming to get this listed as a Good Article and maybe even get it to FA status. Help is much appreciated. WesleyDodds 21:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nirvana on the front page

Nirvana is today's Main Page article, and as a result is attracting a lot of vandal edits. I have to check back on the page every twnety minutes or so. Please help keep on the lookout for such edits and if you are reverting vandalism, make sure to look through the page History to make sure you catch all the changes. WesleyDodds 05:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
• User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
• User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
• User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:31, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smells Like Teen Spirit

Nirvana's a band that has had a lot written about them, and given the amount of resources and that Nirvana (band) and Kurt Cobain are FA and GA articles respectivley, I'm surprised and somewhat disappointed at the shape a lot of the album and song articles are in. With the resources available, we should be able to improve these articles substantially. I started working "Smells Like Teen Spirit" a few days ago and have been able to drastically improve it since then, mainly going on easily-attainable books and a comprehensive list of articles at www.nirvanaclub.com. Help is much appreciated on these articles. WesleyDodds 02:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Distinguishing genres and styles, and ending edit wars

As part of my cusade against the "genre edit wars" that plague many band articles, I have made the following proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians#Genre wars and the distinguishing of genres and styles.
I would appreciate feedback on this proposal. I am going to push hard for this proposal to be put into action, and I appreciate any supporters in helping me do so. Thank you. --Reaper X 01:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review of Frank Black

Hi,

I submitted Frank Black for peer review (which can be found here) a week ago, but I've not yet recieved any critiques. I know WP:PR isn't the most responsive part of Wikipedia, but it would be helpful if some editors from this WikiProject could review the article - as I'd like to submit to FAC as soon as possible. CloudNine 20:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative music portal

While waiting for my submissions to pass though peer review and good article review, I decided to make us a portal for alternative music. Feel free to change whatever you want, bearing in mind that only free images may be used in the selected pictures area. Teemu08 08:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Great :D. I had been thinking of setting up a portal, but it seemed like a lot of work. CloudNine 16:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, users can now nominate articles and images of the month. Teemu08 07:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:U2

Yea, that sounds good. The Rock music Wikiproject will gladfully take ownership, but I think we should shhare it joinmtly for a while, until I and User:DavidJJJ can get the project rolling faster. We still need more participants and articles. --Reaper X 06:10, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Articles can now be rated

Well, after a bit of tinkering with the alternative rock template, I managed to get ratings worked out. You can add a rating to an article's alternative rock template by placing |class=X as a parameter of the template, where X is FA, GA, A, B, Start, or Stub. Teemu08 08:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's some pointers for anyone who wants to rate articles. Please carefully read the rating descriptions as well as be stringent in your criteria. The majority of the articles under the project would probably be Start or Stub class; I've often seen projects where people rate a page highly just because they like it and think it's neat. FA and GA ratings should only be given to those pages already listed as so on Wikipedia; in fact, once a page reaches FA or GA status Teemu08 or I will probably change the rating first so you don't have to worry about that. A-class is above GA class (a common misconception is that it's the other way around) and can only be given to articles already at GA class. Keep these points in mind and rate away. WesleyDodds 01:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• Alrighty, I think I've nailed down an importance scale for the alt rock template. There's still some kinks I need to work out, but it's pretty close. Teemu08 02:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] C86

Be good to get more feedback about its rating (B) and what "actually" needs doing. Presumably it needs nominating to a FA or GA. Jem 12:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

See my comments on the talk page. CloudNine 13:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

(discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music)

[edit] Big Hand

I started an article for the band Big Hand, but it desperately needs attention.

[edit] Template:Wikiproject Alternative music

I'd like to change the picture in the template since Kim Gordon's head is very blurry in the picture (plus, the template's creator, Jmabel, even suggested that it be changed). I'd post on the template's page, but I doubt anyone would respond. How about these images of Better Than Ezra, Robert Smith, Morningwood (a shameless plug, but hey, it's a free promo photo), OK Go, R.E.M., Snow Patrol, or U2? The band itself probably isn't as important as the picture since it's going to be a tiny thumbnail. ShadowHalo 07:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The image was actually changed before, per Jmabel's suggestion. I personally like the current image. It shows a seminal band of the genre, and it has then rawkin' out. WesleyDodds 12:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't check the history; I assumed that since Kim Gordon was in the picture, it must have been the original. Sounds good then. ShadowHalo 05:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Project assessment rankings

Teemu08 has goen through the eoffrt to make an importance scale for the project. This will help us ascertain which projects need attentiont he most, and we can consequently rate them (FA, A, GA, B, Start, and Stub class) and work on them. Having dealt with some rankings on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics scale, I think we shoudl be very stringent abotu our rankings. Personally, I believe we shouldn't have mroe than ten to twenty Top Importance articles. Teemu08 tagged the no-brainers (Alternative rock, Nirvana (band), R.E.M. (band)) but there's things to consider including vastly popular bands (Pearl Jam, Oasis), important albums (Nevermind, Murmur), important subgenres (grunge, indie rock), and bands that didn't sell all that well but were critical to the development of the genre (Pixies, the Smiths). Personally, I think for top importance were should consider what a basic encyclopedia or a rock encyclopedia would have. For example, Encyclopedia Britainnica has entries for alternative rock, grunge, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, The Smiths, New Order, and Radiohead, but not R.E.M., Smashing Pumpkins, The Cure, or Pixies. Most broad encyclopedias would not have an alternative rock entry (at best, they'd have one for grunge at least) but a rock encyclopedia would, as well as entries for R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Radiohead, but maybe not for The Smiths, the Pixies, etc. High importance is where I think the vast majority of popular bands would go (Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Oasis, Weezer, Radiohead, White Stripes, The Cure etc) as well as seminal lesser-known bands (typical candidates would include Sonic Youth, Pixies, Husker Du, Replacements, Stone Roses). Those are my opening thoughts. WesleyDodds 19:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You seem to have ignored Joy Division

I don't know if anybody here is a fan, but you all seem to have ignored Joy Division as an alternative msuic artist. Common people, give 'em some attention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by --ArmedAndDangerous 17:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

They're a post-punk band that existed only during the post-punk era, so they fall under the scope of the Punk Wikiproject. However, New Order comes under the scope of this project, so they're included. WesleyDodds 22:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks, I've posted on the punk projects page. See if they're interested.--ArmedAndDangerous 20:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] COTW (for reals now)

Ok, let's try to get a COTW going. I've passed The Smashing Pumpkins as the first collaboration, and this will be in effect until the 8th. The article is pretty close to featured status as it is, so let's put it over the top. Don't forget to vote and nominate articles as well. I'll try to get a template to work for the article's page. Teemu08 22:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

There's two things the article needs in particular that I can't myself provide: an under-30 second soundclip of a song from Adore (preferrably "Ava Adore" or "Perfect") and a fair use screencap of their appearance on The Simpsons. WesleyDodds 02:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I added a clip of "Ava Adore." Also, if anyone knows of anything that needs to be done to the Pumpkins' other various articles, now would be a great time to bring it up. --piper108 03:36, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The Adore article is actually pretty far along. If we can throw in a bunch of citations I think we could put it up for GA soon. WesleyDodds 03:44, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to put up the article up for FAC real soon, so if there's anything anyone thinks there's left for us to fix, let's try and do it now. WesleyDodds 01:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• Green Day is this weeks COTW. Teemu08 20:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Butthole Surfers

Somebody please correct me if I'm addressing this in the wrong place, but shouldn't the Butthole Surfers be ranked at High-importance rather than their current Mid-importance level? Certainly if their peers such as Sonic Youth, Flaming Lips and Hüsker Dü are ranked as such (high) they should be as well. They were one of the most successful indie touring bands in the '80s, and had at least a few "modern rock" radio hits (including "Pepper" which was a #1) in the '90s and '00s. Even their aformentioned peers have cited them as influences, or at least were fans. The same goes for Cobain and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and others. OK, perhaps I should cite these assertations (I will if it's needed), but does anybody object to their influence or at least their importance in the grand scale of all that is Alternative-ness?

Unfortunately their article is sorely in need of improvement. No one's really taken up the reins and done any serious work. Perhaps I should (and will, if I have time). Someone's at least started to update their discography.Gruntmaster flush 07:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

While surely a notable band, they're simply not as well-known, influential, or successful as the others. My way of looking at it is if you did a big ol' encyclopedia for alternative rock, Sonic Youth, Flaming Lips, and Husker Du would be chosen for inclusion before Butthole Surfers. Meaning we should focus on those first and then move to Butthole Surfers. Then again, the importance rankings are in a sense subjective and act chiefly as self-reference for the project, so it really shouldn't be too much of a concern how high their importance is ranked. The point is still hopefully getting across that Butthole Surfers is in more need of work than a Low-importance article. WesleyDodds 07:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Do more people really know about Hüsker Dü and the Flaming Lips than the Butthole Surfers? (Don't get me wrong, I like those bands too) I guess it's kind of hard to measure something like that. You are right, the importance rankings are subjective and are somewhat decided by personal opinions. And you probably are right that a hypothetical encyclopedia for alternative rock would place those other bands at a higher importance level, even though it's an injustice in my opinion. The band's been praised for being highly influential but they've also been mostly ignored by the press almost exclusively because of their name and supposed "inaccesibility." Thanks for your consideration, though. Gruntmaster flush 08:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

A follow-up: Flaming Lips had a Top fifty hit with "She Don't Use Jelly", and their more recent albums have sold a lot and have received lots of critical acclaim in the mainstream press. Husker Du are about as well-known as Butthole Surfers (and BH do have an edge with a Modern Rock hit with "Pepper" and appearing on the first Lollapalooza), but their influence is more notable, since in many ways they are the linchpin group that turned hardcore into alternative rock, and they've directly influenced seminal bands like the Replacements, Pixies, Nirvana, and Green Day. WesleyDodds 22:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, definitely, in terms of consistently selling well (and remaining on the critics' favorite list), the Flaming Lips have done considerably better than the Butthole Surfers... in the '90s and '00s, that is. Although I have to add that "Pepper" wasn't the only hit for the Butthole Surfers – "Who Was In My Room Last Night," "The Shame of Life" and "Dracula From Houston" were hits to a degree, albeit minor ones when compared to "Pepper." Usually when people think of the Butthole Surfers' influence (and their peak as a band), they think of the '80s, while it's generally the opposite for the Lips. I would agree that the Butthole Surfers' 1990s albums alone would not merit them a high-importance rating in any way whatsoever (it would probably even garnish them low-importance).

But as critically lauded as the Flaming Lips have been in the past 10 years or so, how many actual bands have been influenced by them rather than the Butthole Surfers? Is the importance rating determined by a combination of critics ratings, band/album popularity, and how many bands/musicians have claimed them to be an influence? I'm kind of confused here.

I'm sure that for most big fans of 1980s alternative rock, Husker Du are just as well-known as the Butthole Surfers. But I doubt that Joe Sixpack who casually listened to "alt-rock" in the 1990s and 2000s even going to be aware of the band Husker Du by name, while he might be aware of the Butthole Surfers by "Pepper," or even one of their minor hits. Or perhaps even just because of their band name...

OK, I can settle for the Butthole Surfers being rated at mid-importance. Maybe it just bugs me that 3 Doors Down could be rated as of high-importance, haha. I just hope some of the more imporant "mid-importance" articles are given some TLC. Perhaps I should shut my mouth and get to work. By the way, Ween should probably be added to WP Alternative music. Apologies if I come off as belligerent, it's not my intent at all.Gruntmaster flush 18:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alec Eiffel

Just working on expanding the Alec Eiffel article currently (along with others :)). I was wondering if anyone had any information on the live tracks on the single, or what chart positions it reached in the US, UK and France? CloudNine 15:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Another question - how can I get in contact with people who might have access to a archive of music magazines (like Melody Maker) ? Would Wikipedia:Reference desk fufill that purporse? I'm looking for reviews of Alec Eiffel - obscure, I know - but I'd like to get the article to Good article status, and I need as much information about the song as possible. CloudNine 18:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Portal peer review

I've submitted the alternative music portal for portal peer review. CloudNine 19:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] blink-182 Pop Punk vs Punk Rock vote

I have started a vote on the blink-182 article regarding the long term edit war over the bands genre of Pop Punk or Punk Rock. votes can be cast here. cheers --Dan027 07:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category with userbox

I created a category to go along with the existing userbox to make collaboration with other editors easier, it is under Category:WikiProject Alternative music members. I hope this helps. Darthgriz⁹⁸ 21:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sebadoh Album Covers

First of all, Sebadoh is very thin and not even part of the project, which it should be. Second, the individual albums, i.e. The Freed Man have no covers and rarely more'n a single sentance describing them. I'll get to work on the covers, but I'm not that Sebadoh-literate, so any help is appreciated. Thanks! Oystermind 03:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Autographs?

Is someone's autograph (just the signature part, not the "to" and/or "best wishes" bits) something you think would enhance an artist's entry? (Example: [5])

It might be a nice addition -- and be one more way that Wikipedia is set apart from paper encyclopedias.

If it was something people here are interested in, the next question would be: Would there be a copyright issue with such handwritten material?

- Andwhatsnext 15:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I really don't see the use unless there is something to be said about the autograph itself. As for copyright, I would assume if the autograph was given to you then you would maintain rights; otherwise it belongs to the artist or whomever they gave it to. WesleyDodds 01:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)