Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shortcut: WT:LGBT

LGBT studies WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · discuss
Announcements
A project-wide drive has begun, to cross-reference our LGBT lists with all the people categorised as LGBT on Wikipedia, using reliable sources. Please help us, by checking articles listed here, finding sources for them and adding them to the relevant list. Every active member committing to checking just one article a day would wipe out this backlog in days. Please help the WikiProject by contributing. Please update the deletion sorting list when you come across LGBT XfDs.
Featured article candidacy/review  Peer review List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people; Gateways club; Miriam Rivera	Deletion Discussions  Category:Circuit Parties; Category:Gay porn stars; Image:Andrew Van De Kamp;
Articles needing attention
Here are some articles you can edit: Articles to Clean Up: Fujimi Orchestra, Mano Destra, Jason Paul Collum, Ralph Blair, David Brock Articles Needing Expert Attention Articles Needing Wikification: Gay Blackpool Articles With NPOV Issues: IndigNation, Wilfred Owen Articles Needing Verification: Timothy Conigrave, Raging Stallion Studios, Suze Randall, Roman Heart (porn star), Darren Hayes, Androgyny, Takeda Shingen, Batty boy, Athens Boys Choir, Fireworks (1947 film), Valerie Solanas, Bisexual erasure, Gay rights in Chile, John Cage Articles Needing Expanding: Luis Mariano Articles Needing Translation Requested Articles: Transgender activism, Gigi Raven Wilbur This is a randomly generated subset of our full to-do list
Collaboration
The current LGBT WikiProject Collaboration of the Month is Lesbian! Please read the nomination text and help improve the article to featured article standard if you can. Requested articles 1920 berlin - Amanda Milan - BiCEP - BiPAC - BiPol - Brad and Guiermo - Coalition for Unity and Inclusion - Cymbrogi - Environment and sexuality - FreeZ - Galimony - Gigi Raven Wilbur - Heinz Heger - Hetero Holdouts - History of Religious Persecution of GLBT people - intercurial intercourse - Jade Hines - Jason Gage - Kate Bornstein's Gender Aptitude Test - Kinsey Sicks - Lavendar Scare - Mogenic - Pink Prom - Post-Gay Movement - Relationship Terminology - Thai Gay History - Transgender activism - Una Vincenzo, Lady Troubridge - Underdressing - Zeb Atlas See also Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social Sciences and Philosophy#Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender

edit

Archives

August 2006 – December 2006 December 2006 January 2007 February 2007 March 2007

LGBT studies WikiProject
Project navigation links
Main project page	talk
Portal
Watchlist	talk
Members
Coordinator
Departments
→ Assessment	talk
→ Collaboration	talk
→ Community	talk
→ Jumpaclass	talk
→ Translation	talk
→ Peer review	talk
Useful links
Infoboxes and templates
Guidelines	talk
Notice board	talk
Deletion discussions
Project category	talk
LGBT categories
Info resources
edit · changes

Contents 1 Photos, photos, photos 1.1 Andy Humm and Ann Northrop 2 Source material 3 user categories, bear and cub 4 requests? (Maupin novels) 5 Resignation 6 Collaboration 7 List class 8 activity at Talk:Ex-gay 9 Transgender and transsexual fiction 10 To tag or not to tag... 11 List of bisexual people 12 YAY US!!!! 13 Lesbian / Bisexual / Transgender stereotypes

[edit] Photos, photos, photos

Yo homeys - I've been trying to get more LGBTz for photos. Recents have been Michael Musto, Shequida and Billy Name. If anybody has a gay article that needs an NYC shot of a building or person, let me know and I'll try to arrange it. Right now I'm focusing on drag queens just b/c they are fun to shoot. I have appointments with Lady Bunny, Lypsinka, Miss Understood and Miss Coco Peru. I ran into Amanda Lepore on the street the other day, but she brushed me off to her manager who hasn't returned my phone call, dah bastard! --David Shankbone 17:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Justin Bond, please!!! :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. --David Shankbone 18:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I've been (slowly) trying to work on the Gay USA article. Perhaps a shot involving something of that - i.e. Manhattan Neighborhood Network building and/or studio(s), show hosts Andy Humm and/or Ann Northrop. Anybody who's got good sources on information for these articles would be helpful too! ZueJay (talk) 01:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I just e-mailed Ann and Andy to see if they'll agree to a shoot. --David Shankbone 02:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm doing Ann and Andy next Tuesday. --David Shankbone 20:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Holy cow - that's awesome! Guess I better get to fixing the article up even more! ZueJay (talk) 19:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you get one of Mistress Formika (Michael Formika-Jones)? I know ther'es no article on Mistress Formika yet, but I've been wanting to create one.LiPollis 04:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe Alan Cumming currently lives in New York (somewhere in Manhattan, last I heard). Could you get shots of him and his husband Grant Shaffer please? I've been having trouble contacting them to get a photo (ask if he'll send me a signed headshot as well next time he's in London!!!) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Alan lives in my neighborhood and we used to be good friends years ago, but had a falling out in 2004. I can't really get him. There's no tension, and I sometimes see him at the Tompkins Square Park dog run and we exchange pleasantries. If that happens again and I have my camera, I'll snap a shot of him. I'm more friendly with his husband Grant now. Grant has a Chihuahua like me, so we chat (when it's dog run weather) whereas Alan has a golden retriever, and stays in the "big dog" run. I did shoot John Lithgow today, though. I'll keep an eye out for Alan, though it seems he is spending his days in London now. Otherwise, he only lives three blocks away from me. --David Shankbone 21:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

...that is so cool! My six degrees just got a lot shorter. :D He's supposed to be filming for a US film now, so he should be around for a while. Musicmen just sent me a picture he took of him as well - why do so many people here know Alan Cumming?! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

...because he's slept with them (not me). I used to joke that his fragrance was an amalgamation of half the ball sweat in Manhattan. --David Shankbone 23:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Oooh, queen! :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 23:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) I haven't read much on Alan (I am actually, shock horror, a fan of his acting more than anything), but it sounds like after his seven year marriage to Hilary Lyon ended he went to the other end of both spectrums. But that's just the impression I got, personally, I'm just grateful he has a fairly dull personal life, his article is an absolutely nightmare to write because everywhere I turn he's writing another book, or play, or has voiced something, or done some charity event, or is doing yet another bloody film which he planned, funded, directed and produced himself, playing all the parts and singing the soundtrack which he mixed and distributed personally while designing all the sets and lighting in colours he picked out himself to go with the wardrobe he's made. Drives me mad. He works far too hard. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

He's pretty amazing, I agree. --David Shankbone 23:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Andy Humm and Ann Northrop

I didn't get home until late last night, and I was so tired I did minimal work on the two photographs I uploaded last night for the Gay USA article. Could somebody create stubs for Andy Humm and Ann Northrop? Northrop used to have her own Wikipedia page, but she doesn't have one now. Last night she even said she had edited it (and she obviously didn't realize if that's the case, she was deleted). That said, I have an amusing aside that I don't know if anybody else has come across. When I go photograph people I almost universally am told "Yeah, there were mistakes/inaccuracies/incorrect information on my page." Michael Musto was an exception. I used to think, "Well, sure...goes with the territory of Wiki." But recently hearing this with Ann Northrop and Dorothy Fall, neither of whom have pages, I am starting to think people just assume their pages have inaccurate information. Even when no page exists. Food for thought. --David Shankbone 14:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Source material

Got a question about source materials - might have backed myself into this one a bit. Working on the Gay USA article and e-mailed Andy Humm (producer, co-anchor, activist, journalist) about sources for info on the show's history. He sent back, what I assume, is essentially the show's press release in an e-mail. How do I...? Can I...? What I...? Is it okay to add this info into the article without getting my butt chewed because it's not exactly publicly available? Is there a way to cite that? ZueJay (talk) 19:56, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

That sure sounds like WP:OR to me. I know how you feel, but Wikipedia is fairly strict about that, even when your well founded research contradicts verifiable hogwash. I learned that from my own experience on an article that is featured, but I now know contains manifold inaccuracies. Jeffpw 00:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It really does have to be attributable to a reliable source... -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

• It's not original research. It's primary source. --AliceJMarkham 02:26, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

can you scan the document, and upload the image? --emerson7 | Talk 16:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

So, the information was provided by e-mail. I have copied the text to my sandbox so you all can at least puruse that and consider the material. I created a pdf of the e-mail, but really have no place to put it on the internet (and it contains my e-mail addy which I'm not sure I want to post anywhere). ZueJay (talk) 19:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if it's possible to source the parts you want from other sources, and just use this press release as a guide. Alternatively, ask the Gay USA people to put their press release up on their website. — coelacan — 20:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] user categories, bear and cub

I noticed Category:Cub Wikipedians being nominated for speedy deletion, and I took the tag down (the CSD criteria didn't fit). I see that there was also a Category:Bear Wikipedians, which was deleted because it was empty. It shouldn't be recreated unless there are going to be at least two people in it, preferably more. There are userboxes at User:Pumapayam/Userboxes/User cub and User:Pumapayam/Userboxes/User bear; the latter has recently been altered for reasons that are unclear to me. I bring these here in case they are going to be used by more people, enough to justify the categories. Otherwise, WP:UCFD might be appropriate for the cub category. — coelacan — 20:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I've fought the corner a little more and denied the user, who is very keen on getting rid of these categories, a speedy delete. All the members of that category were removed by that user, he then tried to speedy it as an empty cat. Anyone who was forcibly removed, I suggest you re-add yourselves. There is going to be further deletion discussion so please air your views, even if you want to see it go. Better a group decision than a crusade. Mallanox 23:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] requests? (Maupin novels)

Is there a page where I can put up requests for LGBT topics? I was thinking of Armistead Maupin's novels, which, aside from The Night Listener, don't have one. (I am new to this Wikiproject, so I hope my posting this here is fine).Zigzig20s 17:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

See Tales of the City. But to your question, Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social sciences and philosophy#Lesbian.2C_Gay.2C Bisexual and Transgender is the place to go. That needs to be put on the open task list, doesn't it? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Well...Perhaps it would be good to have a page for each book? I'm not sure I agree on having only one page for everything (six novels plus the TV adaptations). Anyway, apparently there are two other Maupin novels without a page , Maybe the Moon and Michael Tolliver Lives! - although has the latter been released yet? I have read them all except for this one - but I would need to read them again because that was a long time ago. I would imagine I am not the only one to think he is an important gay author and that there should be more about him. Zigzig20s 18:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure each book in the TotC series is notable enough to rate its own article, but that's just my opinion. The series definitely is, and I totally loved it! I'd love it even more if the original Mona were back in the series... BTW, if you're looking for something to do, there's stuff in the book article that needs to be merged into the tv series article :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 20:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Aren't they merged already? Tales of the City talks about the two things (books plus tv series). I would suggest moving the bit about the "adaptation" to this page [1], rather than merging it. I've not had a chance to watch the series though - shame. Zigzig20s 20:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what I meant, though I guess I wasn't very clear :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Fixed I think. I hope I did all right.Zigzig20s 20:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to weigh in on the issue of all six TotC books each having their own page. At this point, I think that's overkill, as you'd basically have Tales and then six stubs. If someone attempts individual plot synopses within sections of the main article, they can be split out into individual articles at the point that the main article gets unwieldy/too large, but not before. TAnthony 22:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Resignation

I am hereby announcing my resignation as the LGBT WikiProject's Coordinator, effective from the end of this month. My recent absence and this announcement has been provoked by my bitter disappointment at the lack of committment of most of the members of this project.

While I don't expect phenomenal amounts of activity from volunteers, at least bothering to respond to a drive to improve a badly needed list would have been nice. Peer reviews are left untouched, requests for help go unheeded, and guideline and category development don't even register on the radar. I see the same ten or so people who do everything here and we can't do it all, particularly those of us who are also active outside LGBT.

In short, I have invested literally hundreds of hours into this project and I feel I have done more than enough to further "the gay agenda" on Wikipedia, and I don't really want to do any more if the project's going to get the same level of response. I wish you all well, but I want to pursue my own interests (that damn HurricaneHink seems to be writing an FA a week...) without spending a good part of my days administrating a project no-one seems to use. I do, however, intend to remain a member of WP:LGBT; I feel we're still a community, regardless of our productivity.

Yours,

Dev920

P.S. The article about us in The Advocate is finished, they're just waiting for a slow month to publish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dev920 (talk • contribs) 21:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

Dev! Are you sure?! You've done a great job and I'd hate to see you go! I mean, this project is more active than 95% of the wikiprojects out there - and getting better all the time! I'll understand if you decide you want to resign :( And I guess your 'term' ends somewhen around the end of the month anyway... -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"this project is more active than 95% of the wikiprojects out there", I know, I know, and I am really proud of everyone who helped make it that way, especially including you, Satyr. MILHIST beware. :) But for all that I just feel a lot of what the project does tends to pass everyone else by - how many people actually vote on the XfDs we list? I'm planning on sticking around, I've got a lot of promotional stuff planned, but I want to scale down what I do here. I've got work at Wikiquote and Meta to get on with, as well as general Wikipedia things. Maybe it'll prompt some of the newer guys here to take a greater hand in the internal stuff (hint, hint)? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

As a "newbie" to Wikipedia, I have appreciated being welcomed and tutored by Dev and many others in the WP:LGBT community. Thank you for ALL you have done to make the world a better place, Dev. MusicMen 22:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

P.S. The LGBT community is MUCH better than some at responding in a timely manner, but, as you say, it's the same ten individuals most of the time. Nonetheless, I have started articles relating to cities and arts organizations whose affiliated wikiprojects have literally hundreds of backlogged articles yet to be assessed. MusicMen 22:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I've always been astonished at the number of times I've posted to a wikiproject, come back about a month later and discovered my message is still both the newest and unanswered. Thank God we avoid that. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions, every bit helps. I too feel the frustration you refer to, even after a number of years on this project. If you don't expect results you will always be pleasantly surprised. Best, Haiduc 23:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Dev, I'm sorry you feel this way. I'm glad you're staying on the project anyway, even if you don't want to coordinate. Thanks for all the hard work you have put into this project! <virtual hug> -Aleta 02:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Dev, you've done an awesome work with this project. I can't say I'm terribly surprised by your decision (the hints were there, and those so-called core 'ten users' seemed to be breaking down lately -jeffpw almost leaving, wjb becoming an admin, etc-), but I respect it. I am glad you're not leaving the project at any rate. :-) I hope in the future you do reconsider becoming the coordinator again, you've made a great difference here. Besides, you make a great leader of the gay cabal! ;-)

So people, how do we make members more interested/involved in the project? We do need to address this issue. Raystorm 14:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration

Our collaboration this month is Lesbian. I was wondering whether we should appeal to the average Wikipedian (White American college student)'s, uh, instincts and advertise this fact on the community portal. What do you reckon? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, think the potential good edits will outweight the potential vandalism? :-) Worth a try I guess. Raystorm 14:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:14, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure why they might be interested, unless you're thinking of a straight man's lesbian fantasy, which is often tinged with latent lesbophobia. I think your idea could work for pop culture perhaps - not quite certain an "average" college student would care to work on higher-brow topics concerning lesbianism. I would love for someone to write more about Charlotte Perkins Gilman's lesbian relationships for instance - from her autobiography. However, are we talking about the Lesbian page only, or about the whole topic?Zigzig20s 17:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The Lesbian page I gather. :-) Raystorm 21:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Sure. I don't know how many would respond, but it has the potential to bring in interested folks, so why not? -Aleta 21:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I put it up and got immediately reverted, and I can't be bothered to argue about it today. But if anyone wants to put it back and argue with Joe, feel free. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 08:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... well I just looked at Wikipedia:Community Portal, and it is there now. I didn't see the reversion in the page history - so were you talking about someplace else, Dev? -Aleta 23:47, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you talking about the list of collaborations? That's updated automatically whenever I change the COTM. I put a message up top. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 00:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the list is what I meant. I still don't see what you're saying, but I think when I found the page for this discussion was the first time I'd look at it. (So I may just not be looking in the right place.) Aleta 00:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List class

You're not the only Project doing this, but since I just noticed your template I thought I'd comment anyway.

What's the rationale behind list-class? Lists are articles too, and lists can be featured. Surely grading them like other articles encourages the development of quality lists rather than the usual low grade listcruft? --kingboyk 12:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I think some lists are likely to never be more than lists, at least for a while. I do a lot of work with WP:NRHP, and all the lists of the registered historic places in each state are pretty much that way. Also it can be used to group the lists together, so it may be easier to find them, at least for future editing.

But the beauty of the rating system is that if an article's quality changes, it can be reassessed. If a list is improved enough to become a featured list, that would be a loverly thing. It seems to happen all too rarely, unfortunately. :( --Ebyabe 12:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

List articles are extremely vulnerable, so tagging them is good if only on a practical level. They need to be kept on a tight leash. Compare List of LGBT couples and List of bisexual people for a "before" and "after" snapshot. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 16:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] activity at Talk:Ex-gay

See Talk:Ex-gay#article title where there is a proposal to rename the page, and Talk:Ex-gay#Restoring Original Article, which regards unmerging a previous merge. — coelacan — 09:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transgender and transsexual fiction

Due to a lack of information about trans-centric literature on LGBT literature, I did some independent research and created Transgender and transsexual fiction. Now, the sources available to me are rather limited, so if anyone has access to better information, please edit and improve the article. Trans fiction is a sorely neglected topic, and I think it's time and past to mend that. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 14:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I believe Ann Madrigal, in Tales of the City, is a transexual for instance. But she appears in a mostly gay novel...hence the LGBT umbrella term? Anyway, Kate Bornstein could be added to your page perhaps...Zigzig20s 18:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To tag or not to tag...

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil - I think so; what do y'all think? -Aleta 16:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say yes :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 16:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - done! Aleta 16:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah. Given the entire book is about a guy on trial for the murder of his male lover, one would think that counts. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of bisexual people

More BLP fun after I removed the disputed section, on the grounds if someone is bisexual, they should be in the main list and if they are merely alleged to be bisexual without proof, this shouldn't be on Wikipedia at all. Some users disagree, one on the grounds that I'm an immature loser engaging in sophistry. Your input would be welcome. :) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 18:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] YAY US!!!!

Ladies, gentlemen and otherwise, MILHIST have nicked our Jumpaclass contest. Be proud. So very, very proud... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 02:41, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh.Zigzig20s 02:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! We're in the big league now, (boys,girls,other)! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 03:44, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Yup, and we're the 14th largest WikiProject. YAY! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 03:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lesbian / Bisexual / Transgender stereotypes

The article LGBT stereotypes has been reffed to the nines and is looking really good. The only thing it needs is for the LB & T sections to be fleshed out a bit - they're waay too short compared to the G. Any helpers? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)