Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker

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This internal Wikipedia page is part of WikiProject Snooker, an attempt to improve Wikipedia's coverage of snooker. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Project revived!

I've archived the old talk, since it's probably mostly irrelevant by now. Yay, fresh start! Flowerparty☀ 00:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

• /Archive 1: May 2004 – August 2005

Contents 1 New infobox 2 New Stub Pic 3 Discussion of Stub Templates 4 Tree Template for other snooker tournaments? 5 South African Flag 6 The lost World Championship results 7 Userbox 8 Pre 1982 World Snooker Championship ladders 9 Steve Davis article 10 1992/1993 Scores 11 Terry Griffiths/ Steve Davis match 1980 12 Patrick Wallace 13 Jim Meadowcroft 14 Player nationalities 15 Wikiproject Cue sports 16 UK Snooker Championship 17 Resolving the "billiards" ambiguity 18 Peter Ebdon 19 Stub templates and categories 20 Wikipedia Day Awards 21 English billiards 22 1994 World Championship 23 Fixit request 24 Stub & cat. cleanup 25 Portal:Snooker update

[edit] New infobox

Steve Davis
If Steve Davis were a pelican...
Born	22 August 1957
Nationality	English
Nickname(s)	The Nugget, Interesting, Ginger Magician
Professional	1978–
Highest ranking	#1 (7 years)
Tournament wins
Ranking events	28
Non-ranking events	24
World Champion	1981, 1983, 1984, 1987–1989

I've started a new infobox, {{Infobox Snooker player}}, to replace the anachronistic table that's currently being used for biographies. The infobox is in use in Joe Davis and John Parrott's articles. I've tried to cut out some of the cruft, but it looks like it could still do with some trimming, if it's ever going to be feasible for use in Steve Davis' article, for instance. I'm thinking it might be more sensible to list the tournament wins in a table within the article, rather than in the infobox. What do other people think? Flowerparty☀ 05:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Super nice! I agree, they could do with a lick of paint to take advantage of a lot of the newer formatting styles that are now available and make them look a bit less "html table" ish. I see what you mean with the tournament wins. For big winners (Davis, Hendry etc) it would probably look nicer to list separately, but for less successful players who maybe have 2 or 3 wins then they could happily fit inside the infobox. That solution has the unfortunate side effect of creating two classes of infobox, and I don't know if that is a big issue or not. SFC9394 11:04, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, the tournament wins sections are completely optional, so they'd both use the same infobox, but I don't really like the idea of having a double standard for using it. Snooker doesn't have any sort of Grand Slam equivalent, does it? If it did, we could list only the really important tournaments in the infobox and leave everything else in the article. Perhaps we could have a field for "number of ranking tournament wins", and one for "World Championship best" and just leave it at that? What do you think to what I've done with Stephen Hendry? The infobox is no longer bigger than the article! Flowerparty☀ 16:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know if you were using conditionals or not (I should have checked the infobox source!) - if it doesn't display if there are none then that should solve the problem of 2 types. I would agree with your solution, with something along the lines of:

World Championship Best: 5 times winner (possibly add years, since this is the most important one to win)

Other Ranking tournament wins: 15

Other tournament wins: 25

That way the reader would have a good idea about the players success without having to dive into the big winners tables (which should be there to give full details of what those wins were) - but it would also ensure that the infobox didn't become overly long for big winners. It strikes a nice balance, with the Hendry infobox not letting anyone know how well he did (apart from the fact that he was no. 1), while the pelican box tells the reader too much! SFC9394 16:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I've tried adding those fields (see Stephen Hendry again). The text wrapping is slightly annoying, but can you think of anything more concise than "Ranking tournament wins"? I'm also thinking it's a bit World Championship-centric now. Maybe the field would be more useful as, not "World Championship best", but just "World Champion".. I'll probably try that shortly. Flowerparty☀ 01:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, it's now just "World Champion", which I think works better. Also, see James Wattana, where I've put the tournament wins in a straightforward list format, which is probably a neater way of doing it. Flowerparty☀ 14:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I see what you meant about the text wrapping - that didn't work too well. The Wattana one looks good - that lists it nicely without being too complex. Good work, SFC9394 14:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The new infobox style looks nice, and the layout is tidier, but do you think we need a field for the beginning of each season's ranking , a 'World Championship Best' field (for player who have not won it yet) and a 'Highest Break' Field?, Oh, and thank you Flowerparty, SFC9394 and all others for helping to revive the Wikiproject! - Nick C 16:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I have added the new fields to the infobox, check it out at the Marco Fu article. - Nick C 19:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I know I intitially left out some of the stuff that's included in the old table. I'm not sure we really need all of that info though:

• World Championship best - I tried this field earlier (see above), but felt that it was just a bit cumbersome, and makes the infobox too World Championship-centric. Is it that important that a player has reached, say, the quarter-finals in the World Championship?
• Highest break - this nearly always seems to say '147', but never indicates where, or when the player made the break, and doesn't really tell you much about the player. I think this is better dealt with in the article's text (which I see you've been doing, Nick - thanks for that).
• Current world ranking - I guess I'm ok with this one, but it means updating all the articles that are using the infobox when the new rankings are announced. I guess that's not too difficult. How high do the rankings go?

I'm happy to leave these fields in, of course, if other people feel they're useful. Anyway, that's why I originally omitted them. Flowerparty☀ 20:04, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I see where you are coming from for the Highest Break field, I feel it might take up too much of the infobox, so that can be removed if you want, but it gives people who just glance at the article to find out all the information easily, without reading the text :). They do not need to be all filled in anyway. The World Championship may be needed, as this is the biggest tournament of the snooker calendar, much like the World Cup of Football. The Current World Ranking field could be useful too, as I mentioned for the highest break field. Thanks for creating the infobox in the first place! Do we agree that this can replace the old infobox? - Nick C 20:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

This is just a suggestion, but do we need a 'Career Prize Money' field? Someone else suggested adding a 'Residence' and a 'Place of Birth' field but I think that this can be added to the text rather than the infobox. - Nick C 21:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

A career prize money field would be nice if there's a reliable and up-to-date (and easily accessible) place to find such information. Is there such a place? If not, then I wouldn't trust wikipedia editors to fill in that field accurately, to be honest. The birthplace field would echo {{Infobox Biography}}, but 'residence'? That kind of information is only useful for stalkers, right? :) Also, I don't think the football World Cup is an adequate analogy here, since there's really only one international tournament in football, and the World Cup is it. In snooker, any player can qualify for any tournament, no? The World Championship just happens to be the most important. Flowerparty☀ 00:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

• I would probably agree that the "Highest Break" is not really needed - at a complete guess but I would suspect that most of the pro's would have made a 147 at some point in their careers. I think the world ranking is a good idea. Perhaps the world championship field could be used if the person has gotten to the finals only (e.g. would list winner - 3; runner up - 4). Along with "ranking wins" that should give a good idea of a players level. The problem if wins is only mentioned can be seen (at the moment) by the fact that Dott is a two times world finalist - yet has never won a ranking event - so that wouldn't show up at all if it was wins only. SFC9394 00:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

That's true, it would be nice to have a field for the players that haven't won a tournament yet. Another way to do this would be to list the player's best performance at any tournament - for instance, Graeme Dott has been runner-up at several events. This is the way worldsnooker.com seem to do it (see Dott's profile). And they also list the career prize money, which is useful. Flowerparty☀ 01:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, a field for player who have not won a tournament yet would be good. Place of Birth and Residence fields are included in the {{Infobox tennis player}}, although I think that the Residence field may not be needed. Data for career prize money can be gained from Worldsnooker.com, but only for the beginning of each season. Anyone care to implement these fields? - Nick C 13:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I've added all the fields that we agree on, I think. See Graeme Dott's article. Flowerparty☀ 01:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)ore

Looks good! Tidied up the infobox a bit on Graeme Dott's article and re-added some fields, look at the John Parrott article, as he has won few tournaments and the infobox does not look crowded. Anymore fields do you think are needed, or can this replace the original infobox? - Nick C 17:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Aw, you're joking! :) Well, I still don't like listing the tournaments in the infobox. It might not look too crowded on Parrott's article, but it does make the infobox longer than the article itself (at least with my screen resolution), and it means having to use the infobox differently for Davis, Hendry et al than for everyone else, which is confusing. I think it's very easy with these infoboxes to include too much information, making it distracting and dominating when placed in an article, and for me these lists of tournaments cross that line. It would be nice to start replacing the old boxes, though, if we can agree on this. Flowerparty☀ 20:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I see what you mean. I have removed those list fields in the template. Now all we have to do is fill in the Number of ranking and other wins, instead of listing them. We can list the tournamnent wins in a seperate section. - Nick C 14:06, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

So it looks like we're ok to start implementing this infobox? I'm sure it could still be improved to make it look better, or whatever, but as long as we're happy with the underlying fields here, I think we should start putting it into use. Hmm, this could take a while. Flowerparty☀ 02:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, we can start replacing the old infobox with the new one, should this be the standard infobox, officially replacing the old one? - Nick C 15:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the project page to make this the standard infobox. Now it's a just case of updating everything in Category:Snooker players :) Flowerparty☀ 01:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The 'image size' setting was broken. I just changed it to 'width' as 1) it works and 2) it's standardised across templates. I did a quick scan of transclusions and it looks like nothing else has been effected. See Allison Fisher for usage example - Alison^✍ 07:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Marking this topic "Resolved" as the infobox is now widely deployed, and has evolved past the scope of the above discussion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Stub Pic

I have added a picture to the stub template, comments and criticisms welcomed

SFC9394 22:26, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I like it. It's a bit big though, how about:

Flowerparty☀ 22:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that works better - I couldn't think of much else to use - the triangle of reds is almost clichéd for snooker! SFC9394 22:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a nice bit of chalk. I've included it in Template:Snooker project, where it's looking pretty chic! Feel free to help me adding this template to talk pages - it looks like we could do to advertise the project. Flowerparty☀ 23:25, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

As an alternative (I'm bored so I just created it anyway - firguring it would be useful somewhere sometime!) is the red balls:

The image could be used for the {{snookerbio-stub}} template. - Nick C 16:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I have now added it to the {{snookerbio-stub}} template. - Nick C 19:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since the stubs for this and WP:CUE are already established and deployed. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of Stub Templates

• Discussion of the stub templates on Snooker are taking place here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals#Snooker.2C_Snooker_bio_stubs. Please participate if you can. - Nick C 16:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • We are down to Cat:Billiards, snooker and pool stubs, Cat:Billiards games stub and Cat:Cue sports stubs for the stub template categories. (Where are the Stubs marked with the snooker stub templates will go). Please vote which one you want to have as the one you want all the Snooker stubs to go. - Nick C 19:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
    • It has been decided that Cat:Billiards, snooker and pool stubs will be used, which seems fair. Now we can use the stub templates! - Nick C 12:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since the stubs for this and WP:CUE are already established and deployed. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tree Template for other snooker tournaments?

Would it be possible to create a template, much like Template:World Snooker Championship Rounds, that can be used to make result trees for other snooker tournaments? as other ranking tournaments have different best of xx frames for different rounds (Does not need to include Best of xx frames, below the Round name). And could the Best of "xx frames" field be made changeable if that is any use. Most of these ranking tournamnents have 32 competitors in the main draw, apart from the Grand Prix. The template could be named Template:Round32, if it does not include the Best of xx Frames variable, much like Template:Round16. - 213.122.38.141 12:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The above comment was by me. - Nick C 13:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The one that is there can be modified to make the "xx frames" field changeable if that is any use. SFC9394 13:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I have changed the template to make the frame numbers optional (they are added at the bottom of the results), and have updated all the results years that use the template. This also has the advantage of allowing the years to be extended backwards pre 1980. I don't know how far back it should go, but I have taken it to the start of the Crucible Years with 1977. SFC9394 17:29, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! - Nick C 19:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone think that the template should be renamed? As it is not just for the World Snooker Championship now. - Nick C 13:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

True, the template should be renamed. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 19:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I've found out that 3 of the 6 current ranking tournaments can use the tree (Malta, China and World Championship) as they are straight knock-out rounds, whereas the other 3 have different formats. So lets keep it named like that, but you can still use it for other articles. - Nick C 17:18, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

What format do the other three fit in? Are they 16 knock out? If so Template:Round16 could be modified (to get rid of the third placed play-off box) and used as a generic for the other tourneys. I guess the masters will definitely be 16 knock-out, but the others I am not so sure about. SFC9394 18:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The other three tournaments have a wierd format, for example, some players get a bye to the next round. So 16 players enter the first round, then the 8 winners play 8 new players in the next round, so there will be 16 players in the first round, and 16 players in the second round! And you would have to make a new template without the playy off box, as some articles already use this template, such as the Football World Cup articles. - Nick C 16:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, a new template is what I meant. I see what you mean about the format then if they have a lot of custom "knock out/go through" type moves. It strikes me that some of the lower order ranking tournaments may also be liable to change their structures in the future, which wouldn't be too handy for template usage. SFC9394 13:57, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South African Flag

Should the icon used for the South African flag pre-1994, on tournament results and rankings pages, be the old flag rather than the rainbow nation flag? It seems strange to see Perrie Mans results from 1979 for example, attached to a flag not introduced for another 15 years after! fchd 12:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

It should be the older flag to give the article a greater accurate feel. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 19:45, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikiproject Flag Template accounts for this sort of thing these days.

[edit] The lost World Championship results

Well, not exactly lost, but where can the 1991, 1992 and 1993 results be found? The rest were found easily enough. TheMightyMariner 07:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm having trouble finding them as well. - Nick C 13:59, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I've got a "Rothmans Snooker Yearbook 1991-92" which has the World Championship results complete from 1927-1991, including what looks like all the qualifying rounds as well. I'll type them up when I get the chance if you like. - fchd 15:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

That would be great! Thanks. - Nick C 18:58, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

1991 Championship Article started, now needs someone else to smarten it up and add the draw-sheet style template. fchd 20:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Main knock-out has been smartened. Can I double check whether the semi-final scores should be 9-17 & 17-10 rather than the 16's that were in? Also, was the final 18-11 or 18-13? The first para differs from the results section on that one. SFC9394 23:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, 18-11 was correct. I'll also go back and proof-read all the qualifying results later today. 16-9 and 16-10 for the semi scores is correct, in that era semi-finals were best of 31 frames. fchd 05:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userbox

The new userbox created by TheMightyMariner looks good. It can be viewed at the bottom of the main page. - Nick C 14:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! TheMightyMariner 14:50, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Marking this topic "Resolved" as the userboxes are now plural, widely deployed, and have evolved past the scope of the above discussion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pre 1982 World Snooker Championship ladders

I should now have filled most of the World snooker results from 1982 onwards in ladders. Any chance on how to do the eariler years in that format when 24 or less players took part.

Yours, Pete Davis 20:45, 8/5/2006

• Unless it was a straight knockout tournament (with 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 and so on, competitors), a template would be hard to create. - Nick C 17:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Davis article

Hi,

Are you sure all his tournament wins are listed (ranked and non-ranking events?). As from the tournaments listed here, he has won some tournaments that are not listed in his biography. Some other player biographies may be like this as well so we need to check them all.- Nick C 16:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds an incredibly tedious task. The Davis article is correct for the ranking tournaments according to World Snooker, but they might be wrong, of course, and they don't list the non-ranking events. Is there nowhere that lists this information like we do? This profile claims 28 ranking and 73 professional tounraments, whatever they are. Flowerparty☀ 23:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess we have to go through the all the non-ranking tournament pages and see. I think all the ranking ones are listed. - Nick C 15:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since that article has its own talk page for further discussion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1992/1993 Scores

I have put the 1992 in the snooker template, I have 1993 still to do but I don't seem to have time on my hands...I will put the scoring down here so anyone who wants to have a go can...

1st Round: S. Hendry beat D. Fowler 10-1; D. Morgan beat L. Dodd 10-6; N. Bond beat S. Dunn 10-4; G. Wilkinson beat Reynolds 10-4; N. Foulds beat B. Morgan 10-5; M. Clark beat K. Payne 10-6; A. McManus beat R. O'Sullivan 10-7; S. Davis beat P. Ebdon 10-3; J. White beat J. Swail 10-4; D. Mountjoy beat A. Robidoux (Canada) 10-6; Dennis Taylor beat T. Drago (Malta) 10-9; T. Griffiths beat D. Roe 10-6; J. Wattana (Thailand) beat T. Jones 10-7; S. James beat J. Giles 10-2; W. Thorne beat S. Mellish 10-6; J. Parrott beat S. O'Connor (Republic of Ireland) 10-1 Round of 16: Hendry beat D. Morgan 13-4; Bond beat Wilkinson 13-7; Foulds beat Clark 13-7; McManus beat S. Davis 13-11; White beat Mountjoy 13-6; Dennis Taylor beat Griffiths 13-11; Wattana beat James 13-7; Parrott beat Thorne 13-9 Quarter-finals: Hendry beat Bond 13-7; McManus beat Foulds 13-11; White beat Dennis Taylor 13-8; Wattana beat Parrott 13-6 Semi-finals: Hendry beat McManus 16-8; White beat Wattana 16-9 Final: Hendry beat White 18-5

-Evito

Where are the 1992 scores? I suppose it shouldn't be hard to simply adapt that page's formatting to the 1993 scores. I'll do that if someone will point me to the 1992 version (and remind me :-) — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terry Griffiths/ Steve Davis match 1980

I just changed one match, Terry Griffith lost 13-10 to Steve Davis in the second round of the 1980 world championship, and not 13-2 as originally entered.

- Mitsuko

Marking topic "Resolved" since that article has its own talk page for further discussion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Patrick Wallace

I have now added a page for Patrick Wallace.

- Mitsuko

• Cool! Welcome to WikiProject Snooker! Remember to sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). - Nick C 17:11, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since that article has its own talk page for further discussion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Meadowcroft

I've created a stub for Jim Meadowcroft. It's very limited but a start at least. SteveO 14:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Just updated it a bit :) Mitsuko 10:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since that article has its own talk page for further discussion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Player nationalities

Should players hailing from the United Kingdom be recorded as 'British' or as representing the individual British nations in their infoboxes? I favour the latter, since snooker players traditionally represent England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland given the predominance of British players. But what do others think? It would be good to build a consensus on the issue. SteveO 23:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, as most Snooker players come from the UK. We should have a vote. - Nick C 19:12, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Wide consensus as judged from actual practice in extant articles is that using the individual UK countries (England, etc.) is preferred. Marking this topic "Resolved" since it's spurred no debate (nor a vote) in abut 6 months now. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:18, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Cue sports

Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Cue sports. Any comments, or better yet interested editors to participate? This would be a "parent" WikiProject that would not interfere with WikiProject Snooker, but attempt to do what WPS is doing for snooker with the rest of the cue sports, and keep them consistently organized. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Update: It is now a "live" project, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cue sports or WP:CUE for short. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since WP:CUE has its own talk page for any further discussion.

[edit] UK Snooker Championship

I have now put in results from the UK Snooker championship. So far I have done 1977, 78, 79, 80 and 81 which the books I used to copy out of ended since the book was dated from 1982.

Pete Davis 19.05, 7 Dec 2006 (UTC)

What's your methodology for doing this work? Have you made a fill-in-the-blanks template article? Just curious if there's something you've done to make it less tedious. :-) — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I have now filled in results from 1984-88 and 1994 and 1995 so far. My hand's getting sore typin all the time. Pete Davis 19.05, 7 Dec 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resolving the "billiards" ambiguity

Several UK folk have observed that Billiards being the broadest article on cue sports (i.e. instead of Cue sport which is a redirect to Billiards, or being a renamed to something else such as "Billiards-family games") is not optimal, because only Americans and even then only some Americans use "billiards" in such a generic way that it also encompasses snooker. The debate's winding down but could use some additional input: Talk:Billiards#Proposed disambiguation page which seems to be coming to consensus, and the topic immediately above it which may not quite be there yet, but resolution of which the disamb. page depends on. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 21:22, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" as the issue was dealt with (see WP:CUETALK or its archives for details. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peter Ebdon

Generally a good article on Peter, but I have rewritten to 'tidy up', and include some more background information, and info relating to previous matches (his defeat of Steve Davis in the 1992 World Championship, and the events at which he made his two maximum breaks etc.). In addition, I have omitted some statements that I didn't feel were particularly noteworthy - "During the 2006 World Championships, Peter almost made a maximum 147 break on three occasions, just failing towards the end of each break. The only century break in the final match in 2006 against Graeme Dott was his in the 23rd frame", and unfounded claims such as "He doesn't always see the textbook shot - instead he tends to make it difficult for himself with sometimes bizarre shot selections", "These ponderous performances are often used to break his opponent mentally", and "- possibly only second to Alex Higgins". The article that I propose is as follows...

Peter Ebdon (born August 27, 1970) is an English professional snooker player and the 2002 World Champion, and current UK Champion. He was born in Kettering and lived in Islington, north London, until he was 18, before moving to Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Attending Highbury Grove school, he played cricket and had trials with London Schoolboys. He began playing snooker at the age of 14.

Ebdon turned professional in 1991, and – sporting a pony-tail, made an impact by beating Steve Davis 10-4 in the first round of the 1992 World Championship, and reaching the quarter-finals of the event – earning him the WPBSA Young Player of the Year award as a result. He climbed the rankings rapidly to reach a career-highest position of number three in 1996; he again reached world number three status at the conclusion of the 2002 season.

Perhaps Ebdon's greatest achievement, thus far, was his 18-17 defeat of Stephen Hendry in the 2002 World Championship final. Peter previously reached the final of the tournament in 1996, which he lost 18-12 to Hendry, and was also runner-up at the 2006 event to Graeme Dott where – at 15-7 down coming into the final session, Ebdon won six successive frames before Dott prevailed 18-14.

Ebdon is a remarkably focussed and determined player. Until recently, his shot times had slowed down considerably; this attracted some criticism – particularly, in his match against Ronnie O'Sullivan in the 2005 World Championship. Resuming at 10-6 down, Ebdon won the first six frames of the evening session, at one stage taking three minutes over a shot, and five minutes to compile a break of 12 [3]. Ebdon nevertheless won the match 13-11. Such performances, though lacking fluency, often appear to break his opponent mentally. Ebdon stated after his victory over O'Sullivan: "when I'm trying my hardest I seem to go slow. I don't do it intentionally".

Among Ebdon's best achievements was winning the UK Championship in 2006, beating Stephen Hendry 10-6 in the final – in doing so, becoming only the ninth player to have won both the World and UK Championships. Peter played arguably the best snooker of his career at this tournament; his shot times were markedly quicker, and this fluency served Ebdon well in defeating the defending champion Ding Junhui, and John Higgins en route to the final, and compiling eight century breaks over the course of the tournament.

Ebdon was only the second player to have made two competitive maximum 147 breaks in professional tournament play – these coming at the Strachan Professional and UK Championship, both in 1992.

Ebdon's shot-selection is somewhat unorthodox in comparison with other top players, yet he is regarded as one of the best single-ball potters in the history of the game, and few players can perform the power screw-back as well as Peter.

Along with Mark Williams, Ebdon is one of the few professional snooker players to be colour blind. He stated in an interview with the BBC, "There have been plenty of times in the past when I potted the brown instead of the red, and vice-versa." [4]

Peter has been criticised for his exuberant outpourings of emotion after winning matches. However, since one particular outburst [2] after potting the match ball against Stephen Lee during their 2001 World Championship second round encounter – repeatedly fisting the air and shouting "Come on!" at the top of his voice, he has toned down his celebrations significantly.

Ebdon is renowned for his strict fitness regime in order to condition himself for snooker; he swims one mile a day, and has cut down on carbohydrates and sugars in order to maximise physical fitness and stamina. He is a devotee of Napoleon Hill's classic motivational book Think and Grow Rich.

Outside of snooker, Ebdon has interests in breeding racehorses, fine wines, and music. He learned the oboe whilst at school, plays the piano, enjoys listening to classical music, and has sung on two pop singles – one of which, being a cover of the David Cassidy song I am a Clown[5].

Peter is a dedicated family man, and is married to Deborah with four children: Ruby May, Ethan, Tristan and Clarissa. In 2005, he emigrated with his family to Dubai, admitting to the BBC that "It's a fantastic lifestyle there, and a much safer environment for the children to grow up in".

Please let me know your comments,

Rob Hatcher —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Robhatcher (talk • contribs) 12:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Marking topic "Resolved" since Rob Hatcher's text has long since been merged into the article, which has evolved further from there. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stub templates and categories

As part of WikiProject Stub sorting, I would like to ask you all to participate in the SFD discussion that is going on regarding the stub templates and categories for this project. It's kind of a big mess right now and I would like to straighten things out. Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 21:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• The results regarding Snooker are as follows:

{{Snooker-stub}} & {{Snooker-bio-stub}} / Cat:Snooker stubs

~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 17:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Marking topic "Resolved" since the stubs for this and WP:CUE are already established and deployed. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Marking topic resolved, as the target date of Jan. 15, 2007 is long since past. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] English billiards

Should WikiProject Snooker be expanded to include English billiards? It strikes me as near-certain that the player crossover (at least in Britain) is large, and that it is unlikely that any set of editors is better able to handle E.b. topics than WikiProject Snooker, while there is insufficient interest thus far in the topic to support a WikiProject English billiards, and finally, the participants of WikiProject Cue sports are largely focusing on pool and to a limited extent three-cushion carom billiards. If not, I'm sure WikiProject Cue sports can handle it eventually, but it'll take the participation of someone there who knows a lot about E.b. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 00:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll take the almost 2 months of silence as "no thanks". — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1994 World Championship

The table on this one is incomplete and only goes up to and including the semi-final. LuciferMorgan 02:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fixit request

Can someone who knows more about the snooker player infobox than I do please fix the subst'd one at Walter Lindrum? — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I have changed it to use the snooker infobox as requested. It looks a little untidy ATM as one of the templates used in the death entry is up for deletion, but it looks like a perfectly reasonable template to use so those who are crusading on its deletion can have the responsibility if they decided to break it. SFC9394 18:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Quick turnaround! I'll have a look at the template you refer to. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 20:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

PS: The template deletion issue appears to have gone away. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 02:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stub & cat. cleanup

Did a bunch o' stub cleanup. ALL identified snooker stubs that were bios are now tagged with {{Snooker-bio-stub}}, so that they sort into Category:Snooker biography stubs. Also cleaned up some "article mess" in Category:Snooker (e.g. tournaments that weren't in Category:Snooker tournaments, referees that weren't in Category:Snooker non-player personalities, etc.) Made a new Category:Snooker equipment for the equipment articles. Flagged two obsolete little rules articles for merging into Snooker rules. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Portal:Snooker update

Updated the DYK there. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 15:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for that. It looks a lot more professional now! Cream147 _{Shout at me for doing wrong} 00:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Keen. Still needs some serious development but at least it's got a few more things-and-stuff. Oh, I don't think I ever bothered to report it here, but I actually overhauled the entire thing to an extent, prioritizing content sections that actually had content over those that didn't, and so forth. It's worth a look (not least of which because someone might disagree with some of the changes...) NB: I have been seeing edits to some of the snooker player bios lately that suggest news, as in some major tournament has completed. Stuff like that is probably good stuff to add to the portal's news section. And perhaps the featured player should change at some point. Things like that. To be honest, and I know this sounds pessimistic, but I'm highly skeptical that a single person in the world is using that portal page. But if it's ever going to be used, that's only going to happen by it being regularly updated. One possible way of ensuring that is if everyone in WP:SNOOKER actually uses it. Just commit to doing that, and just one's own personal annoyance that this or that hasn't been fixed or updated will probably lead to updates happening. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 01:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Not a single person in the world does use it. But if we made it good enough, we could stick a link to it on a few snooker pages and more people will use it then... Cream147 _{Shout at me for doing wrong} 10:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)