Talk:Phenol
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[edit] Phenol use in Nazi concentration camps
NightCrawler made the following change, which I have reversed:
- Patients of Auschwitz and other concentration camps were often killed by phenol injections.
-
- [ed: prior version was Patients of the Auschwitz I concentration camp hospital were often killed by phenol injections.]
Apart from referring to 'patients' of concentration camps (?) - an indication of slap-dash thinking - this change seems to have been made merely to support a change, also made by NightCrawler, to the Diana Rowden page, concerning the use of phenol on prisoners - the issue being whether or not certain prisoners injected with phenol at Natweiler concentration camp were still alive when placed in a crematorium oven.
Eye-witness testimony (quoted on Talk:Diana Rowden) suggests that they were indeed still alive, but NightCrawler wishes to deny this, although his/her grounds for doing so are not clear.
I have no issue with the statement that people were killed by phenol injection at more than one concentration camp. My concern is merely that the version prior to NightCrawler's change was more objective. Petermanchester 11:24, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
The administrators of the German Wikipedia have frozen the Phenol article in a version which does not include reference to this bit of history. In the German article discussion, they choose not to respond to the argument that the English Wikipedia does mention this as being relevant. I cannot understand why the relevance should be related to the language.--Bhuck 11:37, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Oops, sorry--there was a lot of reverting back and forth, and I got confused about which was the protected version. Upon further reflection, I've also decided that there is probably a better place to discuss these issues than an article about phenol. Sorry to bother anyone (though so far, no one seems to have paid much attention, anyway).--Bhuck 13:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
- I saw your message, I was just waiting for you to come round to my point of view ;-) I am sure that phenol was used in concentration camps for murdering inmates, as were many other chemicals. "Schindler's Ark" contains a passage about the euthanasia of ghetto hospital patients with hydrogen cyanide to save them from an injection of benzene. However, I can't say that I find this the most notable piece of information about the chemical compound. It can certainly be left out, and on the balance I think it should be. As for German wiki, there have their ideas and we have ours: the different language versions are not necessarily identical in scope, nor should they be! Physchim62 (talk) 17:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The Mengele comment seems totally out of place in an otherwise well-written scientific article. Certainly as scientists you would have to ask yourself what the basis is for any claim. Keneally is not a source so much as an end-user. If it's so absolutely obvious that the statement is true, then it should be absolutely simplistic to find the source of the info. It's like saying salt is made of sodium chloride and not having the slightest idea what the basis is for that knowledge other than "everybody says so". On top of that, it's just jarring to run across it at the end of an article oriented towards science.
I am really wondering myself why this true KZ past is mentioned in combination with an article like phenol. Intrakardial Injektion with plain air are fullfilling the same purpose. More or less the Germans have learnt quite well about their past. This kind of implementing true facts, where they really do not belong, is in my personal point of view only there, to put still shame and guilt onto Germans and their historical past.
PS: Is their any given evidence about the exact amount of people beeing killed over this cruel and terrible way. Kind regards--Ekkenekepen 08:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Dermabrasion??
Isn't phenol used for dermabrasion? H Padleckas 12:38, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- You bet, not only that, it was commonly used for cortorizing/sterilizing, I forget which, in dentistry before preferrable options became available. Will chase up some references and get back to you. GreatMizuti 14:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Esterification
How readily does phenol form esters? Is there any special conditions that are required, like reflux or maybe an acid catalyst? Would it be easier to esterify it to a carboxylic acid than an alcohol? Can the reactant be a catalyst too? I assume it would be easier still to esterify with a diacid like oxalic acid? Lots of questions :) mastodon 23:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Solubility in water
The article states that phenol has a solubilty of 8.3 g/100 mL water, but the chembox says that it has a solubility of 9.8 g/100 mL water. Which is correct? Jesse 02:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
- I reckon that the 8.3 g/100 mL value is at 0°C and the 9.8 g/100 mL is at room temperature. Check it out online. --Ben 08:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC).
[edit] More on Solubility in water
The article also states that above 40ºC Phenol is completely miscible in Water, that is incorrect, and a proof of that is that it doesn't cite a source. In a recent laboratory experience I had, we determined the critical temperature of dissolution for a phenol-water system to be about 68,6ºC, we may be wrong by some degrees, but NEVER by 28 whole degrees centigrades. I am going to remove that part of the article until somebody cites a reputable source. Pentalis 00:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Phenol fumes?
I work in an environmental laboratory and work directly with phenol crystals. Phenol plays a part in the chemical procedure for ammonia testing ( which I carry out). I have been working in close proximity with phenol pumping into a drain, in an enclosed room, however the drain has been faulty for approx 2 months and pungent smells/fumes and spills are frequent. Is this exposure likely to be dangerous? I am particularly concerned about the inhalation as skin to skin contact is rare as i wear appropriate protective gear. ( on a side note from another discussion i saw, 8.3g/100ml is the correct capacity of phenol to dissolve in liquid.)
- One of the R-phrases for phenol is R48/23/24/25: Toxic: danger of serious damage to health by prolonged exposure through inhalation, in contact with skin and if swallowed. I don't think it is a good idea to work under the conditions you describe. Your employer should fix the problem immediately. --Ed (Edgar181) 13:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- In the laboratory I work in, part of our standard operating procedure for any form of phenol is that it be worked with exclusively in a fume hood. This is based off of the risk assessment of inhalation danger. As Edgar181 points out, you may want to discuss it with your employer. Chances are there's an OSHA regulation about this. Dcteas17 01:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- Phenol has a threshold limit value of 5 ppm, making it one of the more harmful compound to breathe on my list here, similar to con. hydrochloric acid, carbon disulfide, and sulfur dioxide. No way you should be making ANY habit out of breathing this stuff. Second, you can get in serious trouble for flushing so much down the drain. It should be treated as hazardous waste and disposed of through a professional waste handler. Awaspaas 03:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lip balm?
Isn't (wasn't) phenol used in lip balm/chapstick? If so, perhaps there should be a link. --User:Haligonian1 10:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
- It and camphor are still used in Carmex, which is a little disturbing to me since phenol is a pretty nasty poison and camphor is an irritant. Awaspaas 03:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Treatment for hemorrhoids and snoring
phenol is used as an injection into internal hemorrhoids to shrink/shrivel/cauterize them. Also its being used in somnoplasty/snoring procedures, injected under the skin of the soft palate to cause a subdermal wound, which when it heals, the scar tissue that forms stiffens the soft palate, reducing snoring.
[edit] Inductive effect
The statement about inductive effects being responsible for phenol's acidity makes no sense. The only reason it is acidic is due to p orbital overlap which delocalizes the negative charge over the ring, stabilizing the phenoxide ion. In fact, it's oxygen's inductive effect that attenuates the delocalization, making phenol a relatively WEAK acid, not a stronger acid compared to aliphatic alcohols. I think the original author had those confused. That sentence should be fixed or removed. awaspaas
- Edited article to reflect above. Awaspaas 03:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, but this is not correct yanamad 03:20, 14 March 2007 (EST)
- Well, leave it to Dave Evans to make the rest of us chemists feel stupid! Is that theory published?Awaspaas 16:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Consider toluene. It is not very acidic at all (pKa ≈ 40, see [2]). Phenol is much more acidic (pKa ≈ 10). What you're saying is without oxygen's inductive effect, phenol would be a stronger acid. How can this be the case? Toluene's methyl group doesn't have much of an inductive effect, yet it is not a stronger acid than phenol. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Ben 16:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cats?
Is the statement about phenol being toxic to cats necessary? It seems rather trivial, since phenol is exceedingly toxic to not only cats, but most forms of life. Unless there is evidence that phenol is a significant killer of cats (such as antifreeze with pets), this statement merely trivializes the severe toxicity associated with phenol ingestion or contact. Dcteas17 05:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cats2?
The juxposition of toxicit to cats just following it's use as a Nazi murder weapon seems sureal if not sinister. Glad to know that cats rank up there with Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Slavs and Pols. ;)
