Diskussion:Polynesische Sprachen
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[Bearbeiten] Tabelle in Sprachvergleich (Beispiele)
Sorry for writing in English - tut mir Leid. User Phoenix-R and I are in the process of redevloping the table of language correspondences that shows the interrelationships between all of the Polynesian languages and its major subgroups, so that it is suitable for this article. The present table is suited for the Takuu article. Kahuroa 21:38, 21. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- In Tabelle für Polynesian languages the main author for Polynesien agrees with the moving of the table ("Für den Augenblick ist es so wohl am besten. Später müssen wir dann die obige Tabelle in den Sprachartikel einbauen."). There are 6 different languages represented, that's (in my honest opinion) reason enough to work on this table in Polynesische Sprachen. The edit summary for the revert of Takuu (21:34, 21. Aug 2006) seems to disrespect my intentions of moving the table with the statement: previous user is being rash. You don't give reasons for your opinion why the table would belong there (and therefore to Samoa, Tokelau, Rarotonga, Māori, and Hawaii) as well?). Please be sure that I respect the work of other authors as well as the aim of presenting the best information as possible in the Wikipedia. --ThT 15:53, 22. Aug 2006 (CEST)
[Bearbeiten] Response with my reasons
The word rash - in my dialect it just means doing something a little too quickly, and was not intended as a reflection on your intentions. Sorry. Here are my reasons.
- Firstly, the table is not appropriate for the Polynesian languages article because the six languages are not representative of the major subgroups of Polynesian. They only represent a part of the Untergruppe "Nuclear Polynesian". If you think 6 is a good number, I would agree. But it should not be a random six. There should be a reason for the inclusion of each language. If you want six, a better six would be: Tongan, Samoan, Rapa Nui, Māori, Tahitian, Hawaiian. Tongan is absolutely needed.
- It is appropriate for the article Takuu because the table was drafted by me to include languages relevant to the position of Takuu within the subgroups of Samoic/Ellicean which are within Nuclear Polynesian. However, I would support, for the purposes of inclusion within the Takuu article, the removal of Māori, Rarotongan, and Hawaiian, which I included because the same table is used on the Māori Wikipedia, and their inclusion is relevant there.
- The 6-language table would not be appropriate for languages in the Eastern Polynesian subgroup like Rarotonga, Māori, and Hawaii because Takuu and Tokelau are minor languages in another subgroup. Takuu and Tokelau would not be appropriate. The reduced table (Takuu, Tokelau, Samoa) might possibly be relevant to Samoa, Tokelau, because they are closely related to Takuu, but probably dependent on the tone of the article.
- You should understand why the table was included (and designed for) the Takuu article. Takuu is a tiny language, on a lonely atoll in the middle of nowhere. It is part of Papua New Guinea. The surprising, most interesting thing about Takuu is that it is Polynesian, despite the fact that it is so very far way from and outside of the Polynesian triangle. By all conventional wisdom and understanding, the people should be Melanesian. But they are Polynesian, and the simplest way to demonstrate that fact is with the language. And another interesting thing is that the language is close to Samoan and Tokelau, even though they are not the part of Polynesia that is closest to Takuu. That is why Samoan and Tokelau are included in the table. So I would like to include a table in the Takuu article showing the relationships of the Takuu language with Samoan and Tokelau at least, and maybe with another Polynesian outlier language from the same subgroup as Takuu, like Sikaiana.
- This article Polynesische Sprachen has major faults, and needs to be rewritten, and it would be good if it included discussion (or linked to separate articles discussing) each of the subgroups and the diagnostics (ie, the critical, distinguishing features of each subgroup). Then the tables could be moved out of articles like Takuu, into the article or section discussing each subgroup. And the Polynesische Sprachen could then retain a table as is proposed here, of 6 or so of the most important languages in terms of their importance in the subgrouping system. Kahuroa 02:05, 23. Aug 2006 (CEST)
[Bearbeiten] ʻOkina
siehe ʻOkina in Diskussion:Hawaiianische Sprache. --ThT 18:48, 28. Aug 2006 (CEST)
[Bearbeiten] Edits
I have removed sections that are not in accord with the classification of the Polynesian languages currently used by linguists. It would be good if someone would translate the en:Polynesian languages article and insert it in this article. Gliederung This section was wrong. Western versus Eastern is wrong. For instance, Samoan, Tokelauan and the outliers are actually more closely related to Eastern Polynesian than they are to Tongan. See en:Polynesian languages - Components section which is basically correct. There are two major subgroups of Polynesian, but its not Western vs Eastern, its Tongic versus Nuclear Polynesian (= everything else). And what is Matesanisch? Is that supposed to Marquesan??
- Tongic group
- Major components: Tongan and Niuean
- Nuclear Polynesian
- Major components: Ellicean outliers, Samoic, Eastern Polynesian
(the categorising of Ellicean/outliers/Samoic is under review so you may see different arrangements in the enWiki articles.)
Phonotactics are (C)V where V can be short or long and (C) is optional. Not CV as the article implies. The part - from "Die im Tonganischen sehr lebendige Abschwächung right down to ......Tagalog und Fidschi "ngusu"" is incorrect. The similarities are merely coincidental parallel developments.
Erläuterungen am Beispiel des Tongaischen - the incorrect in that it proposed a special closeness between Tongan and Melanesian . The Polynesian outlier languages do not have a close connection with Tongan, they are all placed in the same subgroup as the Samoic languages.
Kahuroa 02:05, 26. Sep 2006 (CEST)
