Talk:7th Heaven

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Contents 1 Family program 2 7th Heaven Comment 3 Family Program Terminology - USA 4 Duration 5 Record length? 6 Denomination 7 More "Demonination" Section Problems 8 Not judgmental 9 Political affiliation 10 Jessica Biel section 11 Characters 12 TRUE or FALSE?!! 13 Denomination (redux) 14 spell correcting 15 Garbage 16 Election

[edit] Family program

I have to say, this makes no sense to me: "... has been renewed for its 10th (2005 - 2006) season, making it the longest-running family program in television history." What does "family program" mean here? A program which is centred on a single family? Because then you would (obviously) have The Simpsons with a longer run. Or a program that is watched by "all the family"? Because the Aussie soap Home and Away qualifies on that score. Or is it an American usage I'm not aware of? RMoloney 01:01, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I would think it means familily show from a conservative/Christian point-of-view ie Touched by an Angel...basically the kind of program I consider to be god awful crap ! Dowew 00:33, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the term "family program" means that it is a program that the whole family can watch, and The Simpsons does not fit into that category. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I hate The Simpsons or anything. Va_girl2468

You guys are all sort of right, but I still think the term "family program" isn't the right one here. It should say "the longest running family drama", because that's what its network (the WB) promoted it as- The Waltons and Little House on the Prarie are considered to be in the same category. It still is a stupid comment altogether- it's a long running show, yes, but creating such a small category of tv shows so that you can be number one is a bit sad when it comes to advertising- perhaps it should be re-worded and the idea that the WB promoted it as such be added in front. Any other thoughts? Emily 21:28, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 7th Heaven Comment

If you view this show as "god awful crap" then you must be a "god awful person". Keep watching your beloved trash television which pervades and perverts today's society. You seem like a perfect match for it.

A response

You assume a lot when you say that a person who hates this show is a "god awful person". For the record, I hate this show too - and with a passion. But then again, I also know good TV, such as "Gilmore Girls", "Star Trek", and "King of the Hill". So your assertion that anyone who doesn't like this show likes "trash television" is wrong.

The Camdens have to be the nosiest family to ever be shown on television. They stick their noses in everyone's business as though they are such experts on life and they are qualified to tell people how to live their life. As a person who values their privacy, that's offensive.

You may say that the Camdens' snooping showed that they cared about people. Maybe so. Personally, though, I'd feel a lot better if they'd show that caring by being there to talk to me when I needed someone. Not by involving themselves in my business without my permission. That would anger me and drive me away. Not draw me closer.

Don't even get me started on that little brat Ruthie. An eight year old who's supposed to be so worldly-wise that she can tell adults how to live their lives? Give me a break. I certainly wasn't in any position to dispense unwelcome advice to adults as an eight year old. What about you?

I also doubt the "morals" depicted on this show. It seems that all fo the Camden girls who married did so after dating their husbands for a month or so. A month is usually not long enough to acquaint yourself with a person with whom you plan to live the rest of your life. And what about that episode when Ruthie was required to write a report on a President on President's Day? Her teacher acted as though it was blasphemous to even suggest that our founding fathers weren't perfect. I can understand trying to stay positive in a report about a former President on President's Day. But shutting Ruthie up midsentence and forcing the class to throw away her pass-outs? That's going towards censorship.

The absolute worst episode was "Healing Old Wounds", which probably opened more wounds instead of healing old ones. If people felt strongly about the issues surrounding the 2004 election, that's fine, but Brenda Hampton did little more than state Republican talking points.

The low point was when Martin's Dad was passing off those bullshit defenses of the war and kissing Roxanne before she could respond. If our reasons for going to war with Iraq are so honorable and solid, why would he have to do something like that? To compound such an already offensive presentation of the facts, Roxanne responded, in so many words: "OH, I'm such a bad Christian and American for not completely trusting Bush. I support the war 'cause I don't want the terrorists to personally come after me". Even if you agree with the reasons for going to war, you have to admit that Brenda Hampton's presentation didn't make either side look good.

I'm disappointed that this show was revived for another season. There are television shows out there that depict family family values much more realistically than 7th Heaven. I'd sleep better at night knowing that "The Cosby Show" or even "Gilmore Girls" was America's model for family values instead of 7th Heaven.

As opposed to religion perverting society...

People, People! What are we doing here, discussing if 7th Heaven is a stupid show or a great moral show?! This talk board shouldn't be a fighting place. It SHOULD be for discussing changes to be made to the article. But if you do want to call the show "god awful crap", then perhaps you don't like 7th Heaven enough to help create its article. Emily 21:39, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree, it's a bad show. --66.218.12.23 02:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Emily, you definitely are on target as far as the stated purpose of the "talk" page. However, I think it might be time to rethink that purpose. The articles are rigorously kept free of personal opinion and are ideally treated with integrity and seriousness of purpose. That is good; NPOV is foundational to this thing. However, why not let people goof off and debate each other and express serious opinions about aguably trivial things on the talk pages? Who is it gonna hurt?

[edit] Family Program Terminology - USA

The term "family program" in the USA is given to a show that has content that is appropriate for all family members to watch, regardless of their age. These shows would typically have little or no violence, simulated sex or sex inuendo, nudity, or profanity. They typically have story lines that have a moral to their story so as to reinforce positive wholesome values.

I truly feel sorry for anyone in any country who would opine that these types of shows are as one has said god-awful. Would that the entire world was filled with people who practice and respect these moral values.

"appropriate for all family members" according to autocratic "moral clarity" vanguards. (Personally, if the world were filled with these closet psychos, the Camdens, just shy of drinking the kool-aid, I couldn't move fast enough towards the sweet release of death. Watch some Aeon Flux instead and get some perspective!) 71.162.255.58 05:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duration

"The series lasted from 1996-2006." By my calender it's only Dec 05, is there a crystal ball involved? Avalon 05:45, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

The network announced that the show would have its final season in 2006 earlier in 2005.67.142.130.25 23:03, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Record length?

In its 10th season it set the record for being the longest running family show in television history.

Oh, really?

From Bonanza: "It aired on NBC from 1959-09-12 through 1973-01-16."

This little "record" appears to be non-factual. Can we take it out, please, or qualify just exactly what is meant? Perhaps Bonanza was not a family series since there was no mother? Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 20:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I see this has been discussed with no resolution and no substantiation. I have made the change. Even if you define "family program" quite narrowly, Bonanza still fits it. I'm confident I can think of more if I try hard enough. I've been noticing conflicting claims of "longest running series" or "longest running series of X type" for years, since long before Wikipedia. I'd like us to not just repeat them the way other media sources do.

For those of you who like the "conservative/Christian" definition of family series, I wish you'd at least check out some of the good series of old. Yes, if your horizon extends back only ten years, 7th Heaven is the longest running series on television. But there were many other such shows in the past, and at least one ran longer. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 20:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet ran '52-'66 and started on radio before that and My Three Sons ran for 12 years. The Waltons had 221 episodes after 9 years, plus 5 or 6 two hour "movie" episodes after the show ended. 7th heaven has to make 23 episodes this season (as opposed to their normal 22) to make it 221. The main problem here is that the WB announced it as "...longest running family _DRAMA_" and fans have felt the need to drop the "drama" and tout it as longest running family show ever.

Thanks to whoever provided the facts. I'm glad to see that this hasn't been revert warred into the article or anything. I note that even with the "family DRAMA" qualification, Bonanza is still a longer-running family drama. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 18:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

They meant the longest running family show on The WB. 74.226.71.67 03:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Denomination

"However, the fact that there is mention of church deacons would indicate Congregational or Baptist; the fact that he is addressed and referred to as "Reverend Camden" rather than "Mr. Camden" would indicate a somewhat extreme evangelical orientation"

I went to a Methodist church growing up which had at least one deacon. It was neither extreme nor evangelical, but the ministers weren't addressed as "Mr. So-and-So" either. For these reasons, I believe that the above quoted section of the article might need to be changed.

A deacon in a Methodist church is quite different from in the Congregationalist/Baptist tradition, where the deacons are equivalent to a Presbyterian session or an Anglican/Episcopal parish council. A Methodist deacon is a lesser order of ordained clergy, comparable to deacons in the Catholic and Anglican/Episcopal tradition; there is likely to be only one or two in a congregation. "Reverend So-and-So" is correct in Protestant Ireland and this has been carried over to the more conservative evangelical Protestant denominations in North America but it is indicative of that sort of tilt in churchmanship. Congregationalist and Presbyterian clergy -- and certainly Anglican/Episcopal and the more middle class Methodists -- would certainly prefer not to be "Reverend So-and-So" but rather "the Reverend Mr/Dr/Mrs/Miss/Ms So-and-So" and would regard the former as incorrect. Masalai 17:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] More "Demonination" Section Problems

The section reads, "If the congregation were Baptist one might expect to hear "Reverend Camden" referred to from time to time as the "pastor"". Are you kidding me? Let's just say, for starters, that the rambling on about what the church might be and then ending with: "Possibly this mixture of denominational indicators..." is ridiculous. Simply say that there is no specific demonination of the church mentioned, and if the word "possibly" MUST go in there (although it probably shouldn't, as this is supposed to be a factual article), then just mention it. Son't go on and on. But back to the referring to Lucy and Eric as "pastors"- they have Associate Pastors (Lucy and STAR Chandler- remember?!), and I think Eric and Lucy actually ARE referred to as "pastors" once or twice. This needs to be changed. Can I change it? Emily 21:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Masalai, why did you revert the section back? I misspelled "once" (sorry, I accidentally spelled it oce, I just looked at history). It wasn't illegible! Please explain. Emily 03:57, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Why is it considered necessary to identify Rev. Camden's church with a particular denomination? The fact that it's called "Community Church" is consistent with Non-denominational Christianity. The entire section about "denomination" seems to be emphasized too much in this article. --Metropolitan90 05:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not judgmental

The article states that the true reason for the show's success might have to do with the fact that it is not preachy or judgmental. Not only is that completely unverifiable, but I find that a show about a pastor telling his kids, neighbours, and friends what is right and what is wrong is kind of preachy. - Unmitigated Success

Well, the show is very guarded. In the episode "Vote", people were on oposing sides, but no one mentioned Bush or Kerry... so no one watching would feel that their views were being "judged". Instead of teaching that abortion, for instance, is wrong (or not), the topic never comes up, ever. In this way, no one can be offended. Emily ^{(Funtrivia Freak)} 19:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

When it comes to big controversial issues, such as the presidential election, homosexuality, abortion, I believe that the show never takes sides precisely so no one will take offense, as those are typically the kind of binary debates that would immediately hurt the ratings, because it would divide the audience in two groups, with one of the two groups walking out on the show. Instead the preaching applies to more ordinary situations people would be confronted with. I recall an episode where one of the son's was hanging out with a new friend, who happened to have pot in his backpack, as Rev Camden found out. His immediate reaction is to call the police, explaining to his son that a) drugs are wrong, and b) call the authorities on your friend, because that's the American way. Because a lot of episodes are about his teaching his kids a lesson in moral values, and because as a reverend he has basically the same role for his parish/neighborhood, the way I see it is that all the plots involving him are essentially about preaching and judging. - Unmitigated Success

Emily, you're free to make changes if you want.

Not preachy or judgmental?! What show are YOU watching, because you must not be watching 7th Heaven. From RevCam sanctimoniously spying on people and telling them what to do, to the rest of the family sticking their noses into other people's business, they are about as judgmental as you can possibly get. Not preachy? What about that episode "Healing Old Wounds" (more like opening new ones) where Martin's Dad was giving Roxanne all kinds of bullshit reasons for going into Iraq and kissing her before she could respond? This show is pure, unadulterated CRAP and I can't believe that it has fans or that it got revived (how it's lasted ten seasons - at least six too many - is beyond my comprehension).

[edit] Political affiliation

In the syndicated episode that aired last night (4/7/06), Matt admitted to Sarah that he is a Republican and disclosed that his father, the Reverend Camden, is a Democrat.

[edit] Jessica Biel section

There's a problem in the last paragraph.

"Her appearance in the 10th season finale, though limited, shed light on events taking place during the last few months. Mary graduated college the same weekend as Matt and Sarah, reunited with husband Carlos, and is pregnant with twin girls. Although she was not with the family, her conversation with her husband during the episode revealed that their reunion took place during Matt and Sarah's graduation ceremony, the first time they had all been together in almost three years, also suggesting some final resolution to the estrangement that had been present since Season 5."

It is impossible for Carlos and Mary to have reunited at Matt and Sarah's graduation, as that graduation was scheduled to take place the day after the events seen this episode. I don't recall the actual situation mentioned of how they reunited, but it clearly wasn't this one.

Also, in addition to the scene of her talking on the phone, she showed up in an imaginary sequence earlier in the episode, where she interrupted Simon and Rose's wedding ceremony.12.75.53.85 04:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

someone wrote something about Mary becoming a hooker...? I wish this was true but, come on, surely it isn't.

[edit] Characters

• Please help expand this page: List of 7th Heaven Characters It needs a lot of work. -AMK152 15:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TRUE or FALSE?!!

3 new characters have been added to the cast and 3 others have left. Also, its been said if the 13 episodes do good, 9 more will be produced and Beverly has went on to say that if the show does in fact get a 12th season, it WILL have new actors for the characters that are currently there, as in a big if.

David G and Jessica both said the same thing about that one of the characters this year wll pass away.

[edit] Denomination (redux)

“... many American Protestant denominations do not permit women to occupy a clerical position.” Where does this come from? Most Protestant demoninations I am aware of here in the U.S.A. have female clergy. This statement needs verification. — Michael J 23:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spell correcting

hi

i fixed several spelling errors

[edit] Garbage

This show was such browbeating garbage. Even when they occasionally made points I agreed with (which was rare), they used such stereotypical characterizations and made everything so black and white that you felt you were bludgeoned to death by the end of the episode. Especially the episode where people were prejudiced against the Muslim family. The plot was completely unrealistic (sure, paranoia was rampant after 9/11, but come on...this was over the top), and while I agreed with the premise, I felt like puking after the episode.

Also, to the numbnuts at the top who called someone a godawful person for hating this show--go to hell.

--70.119.83.163 20:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)Douchey McFattBurger

The rumors about replacing characters in a possible year 12 are FALSE!!! If they were ever gonna replace people they would've done it years ago when Mary left. Never gonna happen, folks!

This page is for talking about the article, Not the show. DesignForDreamingFan 12:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the first guy for the most part. This show needs to get racier. There were some awesome episodes while Mary was heading towards the dark side... drinking and almost smoking pot. Then there was the anglea few seasons later where Simon was having a sex with some girl in a non-monogamous relationship or something. The rest of the series has been mostly dull. I think they should dress it up a bit. Maybe it could be revealed that Rev. Camden enjoys watching Annie get gangbanged bareback by a bunch of big black men or something. Also, one of their offspring should develop an addiction to hard drugs. Preferably it would be one of the twins.

[edit] Election

A 2004 episode about the importance of voting on election day seemed to suggest that men in the family were voting for incumbent president George W. Bush while the women were voting for Massachusetts Senator John Kerry

Where in this episode is a clue that Eric & Kevin vote for Bush and Annie & Lucy for Kerry? There was absolutely no clue AFAIR.--84.142.162.135 11:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)