Talk:A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

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Contents 1 the veil 2 Walter Scott caused the American Civil War 3 Main Theme 4 Prediction of First World War battles 5 Quotation

[edit] the veil

"...as when Merlin makes a "veil of invisibility" that actually does not exist. When the veil is worn, people act as if they did not see the wearer, even though he is in plain view."

It was my understanding that the veil only hid one from their enemies, but to everyone else they were plainly visible. Fishopolis 23:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC) ----> Fishopolis

[edit] Walter Scott caused the American Civil War

And Wagner caused WWII... Seriously, can this be fleshed out or re-phrased by someone who knows about this stuff, because as it stands it makes Twain sound risible. JackyR | Talk 16:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Twain knew (as a Southerner himself) about the whole Southern romantic self-concept of themselves as a noble aristocracy (and its humble but loyal lock-tugging servants) beset by the vulgar outsiders, which in turn was fed by the soppy romanticism of Scott's version of medieval history. I will try to find you some cites from Twain's own works when I get a chance.--Orange Mike 19:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. And indeed "the whole Southern romantic self-concept of themselves... was fed by the soppy romanticism of Scott's version of medieval history" is already a major improvement.

Of course, Americans were not Scott's intended audience: the American Civil War is in another country, on the other side of the world, 30 years after his death. Scott's project, so to speak, was the creation of a "modern" Scottish identity (part of the romantic nationalism occuring throughout Europe). Even Ivanhoe is a projection of Scott's national mythology onto England, with Anglo-Saxons instead of Scots and Normans instead of English. So it will be interesting to see if the Twain quotes are critical of Scott as a person, of Scott's literature, or of the uses to which Scott's literature was put in America. JackyR | Talk 21:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Main Theme

"the main thrust is a satire of romanticized ideas of chivalry and of the idealization..."

I believe the above statement to be slightly - if not mostly - wrong. The book's "main thrust" is far more of a jab at blind faith and the power of this faith, especially when wielded by the early Christian church. Twain surely makes plenty fun of knights and their seemingly eccentric and ridiculous lifestyle, but the theme of the book as a whole puts far more of an emphasis on the exploitation of the gullibility and perhaps naivete of the Medieval mind by other "magicians" and, ultimately, the church. Fishopolis 23:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)> Fishopolis

[edit] Prediction of First World War battles

The "Prediction of First World War battles" looks like original speculation, unless the speculation was done by some noteworthy source outside of Wikipedia, in which case we should say which source. Wikipedia is not a showground for original thought. Robin Johnson (talk) 13:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this section seems rather *absurd*. In the book there is no prediction or foresight. It's merely a coincidence, and not much of one, at that, since it was published in 1889, more than twenty years before WWI even began. If anything, it's closer to the Spanish-American War, and even drawing connections between that and this novel is strange - lances and bayonets? Not to mention, no sources. I'd bet it's original, as well. I'd do away with the whole section. Sometimes a cigar, uh, battle is just a battle. Maria 13:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

If, say, an academic had made the connection and written it up in a noteworthy publication, then reporting on that publication would be within the scope of this article. However, I'm not convinced that that is the case - I can find nothing with Google that discusses this book and first world war battles together - so I'm going to take the section out. If someone puts it back in, it must clearly state where the connection comes from. Robin Johnson (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

More or less good analysis should be decided by various readers of the article as it evolves? No? I know that's not technically the policy but I don't like the policy. Whomever added the WWI bit justified it with a few illustrative, comparative sentences, suggesting the image of a fortified "position virtually impossible to overcome by advancing troops because of barbed wire and machine-guns," the main tactical situation in WWI. The correlation between the climax and WWI would be pointed out by most mouth-breathing sophomores in a class discussion, I don't understand why sensible things cannot be said. I'm certainly not going to trawl obscure, unread assistant-professor papers like they matter more than the wikipedia article.

-urbo

The point here, I believe, was not only the original research (which is a biggie), but the use of the word "prediction," and that Twain's depiction of battle was somehow foresight into the future -- nearly thirty years into the future, in fact. The correlation may seem apparent in hindsight, but it does not relate to the novel or to the intentions of the author. Whatever coincidental correlation the original editor saw is just that: a coincidence. Besides, speculative term paper theses do not belong on Wikipedia. It was unnecessary, and so it was removed. Maria 13:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotation

"The very blunging to which the ideals are exposed makes the satire less than effective. Hank describes himself as void of sentiment and poetry, acts in a rather Philistine manner, and despite being swept centuries into the past and across the ocean, refuses to believe that magic exists. Being unwilling to yield, he is unable to compromise with Camelot on anything, leading to chaos, and in the end, though he characterizes Merlin as a 'doddering old fool', Merlin is able to send him back with a few passes in the air.[1]"

This analysis comes from some guide to fantasy lit., written by somebody who probably doesn't understand satire very well. I think it should be removed. Obviously "BELIEVING IN THE SPECIALNESS OF MAGIC!" isn't Hank's problem. --urbo