Talk:American Global University School of Medicine

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This article was nominated for deletion on October 22, 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus, defaulting to Keep.

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[edit] Accuracy Dispute

I am trying to follow the rules of Wikipedia. I have e-mailed Wikipedia on a few occassions asking why individuals are able to convert my information and place incorrect information under American Global University School of Medicine. I do not wish to make the article sound like an advertisement, nor do I wish to see incorrect information. A few of my concerns regarding American Global University School of Medicine information:

1. The school is accredited by the government of Belize, Ministry of Education, Marian McNab. This is verifiable information. You may contact the Ministry of Education at 011-501-822-2329. Ms. McNab is difficult to reach by telephone, so you may have to speak with her assistant Ms. Irene Cruz.

2. The school has received approval to be listed with the ECFMG. Carole Bede of FAIMER/ECFMG granted approval back in April 2006. The school had to wait until it held its first day of Basic Science classes on campus which was September 4, 2006. The ECFMG only updates their website once or twice a year . . . if you are relying on the website for up to date verifiable information, it is not!

I am a Director of the University. My introduction to Wikipedia was from students who attend the University. They were outraged at the incorrect information your site was presenting to others. We have also had applicants mention the incorrect information on your site . . . and they give it to us as a "heads up" . . . "People are writing bad things about your university" kind of way . . . because these students have done their verifications and know the information presented on this site is incorrect.

How can we correct this? How can we persuade the editors of Wikipedia who keep taking out the correct information verify their information? If the correct information continues to be distorted and incorrect information is placed under the definition . . . We do not want to be listed on the Wikipedia site. We did not ask to be listed . . . I am assuming disgrunted competition placed us there to begin with and place incorrect information. . . . but it is more of a hassle to keep checking the site and noticing that the correct information keeps getting changed to incorrect information.

I do not wish to keep receiving warnings and I apologize for earning the few I have received . . . I guess I did not realize I was doing something wrong.

Once again, the information I placed on the site is verifiable. The persons changing the information should possibly be receiving a warning for placing false information down when they should have taken the "real" time to verify their information.

Please let me know how we can proceed in a constructive way . . . I did not mean to break any rules, I was not fully aware of all of them until I just received the warnings . . . apologies!

Sincerely, Let'sGetReal

Hi Let'sGetReal,

Thank you for bringing your concerns to my attention without starting a revert war. I have moved your concerns from my talk page to the article's talk page to generate greater visibility and discussion amongst WP editors. I have also added a disputed tag to the article to notify readers of your concerns that the article is factually inaccurate. In response to your concerns:

1) Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Please see WP:SPAM. Your version of the article uses phrases such as: "mirrors the quality standards of U.S. medical schools," and "taught by a quality faculty of British and U.S. Physicians" which definitely sound as if the intent of the article is to advertise for the school. As a administrator with the school, editing the article in such a way could be seen as a conflict of interest under WP:VAIN.

2) The cornerstone of Wikipedia is verifiability. However, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader must be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source. A phone call is not a reliable source under Wikipedia policy. You could be calling anyone at that number, the school included. Facts must be published in official reliable sources prior to being allowed in Wikipedia, otherwise they would be original research. Anything that is added must be properly referenced from published sources. See St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine or St Matthews University for examples of how controversial phrases must be documented.

3) The only reliable source I can find is the fact that it is not mentioned in IMED. As per the website, it says "Current as of 08 Oct 2006" (today's date), so I tend to believe that it is an accurate representation of the current state of affairs, which would be that students/grads are currently ineligible for the USMLE.

As for how to proceed:

You may use Dispute Resolution procedures, such as third opinion or Request for Comments for getting additional WP editor's views on the matter.

If you do not want to be listed, you can nominate the article for deletion, but I expect it to be kept anyways, since as a post-graduate institution it is inherently notable and worthy of a WP article.

Hope that helped clarify things. Leuko 22:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Let'sGetReal, unfortunately wikipedia has been spammed in the past with incorrect and fraudulent schools. We take articles seriously, especially medical schools and other high education institutions.

Do you have any links that can confirm what you claim? Calling a phone number amounts to WP:OR, which is not acceptable. Do you have any proof that this place is what it claims?

International numbers prove nothing as they can be routed to different numbers. Say you call a French number it can be directed to a answering service in Dallas, Texas.

The matter of WP:V is very important especially considering the article notes the headquarters are in Ohio, which is governed by various laws regarding medical education. Arbusto 02:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. There is very little in this article anyway. The lack of accreditation and absence from FAIMER/IMED is verifiable, and that's about it. If somoene has additional verifiable information then there's no reason it can't be included, provided it is in line with our neutrality policy (especially the "undue weight" clause). Guy 08:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

I have removed the notability tag from the article in accordance with the proposed WP:SCHOOL guidelines. As a post-secondary school, the guidelines state that it is inherently notable. Leuko 16:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

1) Proposed guidelines aren't policy. 2) How about you find a WP:RS that this is a school? 3) I've reinserted the tag until you overcome these two issues as the afd did not achieve consensus. Arbusto 18:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

1) Established notability guidelines aren't policy either, but they are guidelines. 2) There are already two WP:RS in the article which prove that the school is not accredited despite its claims. 3) Another editor has removed the tag Leuko 18:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

A footnote for WP:SCHOOL on postsecondary, the proposed policy, states "Tertiary educational institutions which are distinctly for-profit should also be examined with Wikipedia:Notability (companies and corporations)." Do you have proof this passes WP:CORP? Arbusto 18:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I doubt that there is any notability that can be established. The reason the article survived the AfD is that it was decided that it was information that should be made available. Way forward? Either the notability tag should remain off or there should be a second AfD to attemt to reach concensus. BlueValour 18:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If notability isn't asserted then it will be put up for afd again. Usually you don't afd for a second time days after the first one was closed. Arbusto 19:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you have proof that the institution is for profit? Leuko 18:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You wrote its headquarters are in Ohio. According to the IRS, there is no non-profit by this name.[1] It charges in the thousands of dollars[2], not pesos. If you want to assert it is a non-profit, what's your source? Arbusto 19:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

What's your source of the school's tuition? If you don't feel that the school's website is a WP:RS to prove the school exists, it can not be used to determine for/not-for-profit. Sorry to play the devil's advocate, but WP policies must be applied evenly and fairly. Leuko 22:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)