Talk:Anti-copyright
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I do not entirely understand the copyright law. If you use pictures that you have downloaded from the website for commercial activities, will that fall under the copyright law? What should you do to obtain the copyright then?
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[edit] Old discussion
I don't understand this article - isn't it possible to be anti-copyright without being an anarchist? To be honest, I'm struggling to understand what the article is trying to be about. If it's about anarchists views of copyright, it should probably be called Anarchists' views of copyright (although I doubt there is a consensus amongst anarchists on the matter). Can somebody enlighten me? --Camembert
Karl replied thus on my talk page:
- re anti-copyright: It is an actual "copyright" statement. It is required because in may places items are copyright unless specifically stated otherwise. It would be a bit more popular than "some" anarchists. With most things anarchist, it is very difficult to tell how popular. My feeling is that it may be 75% or more popular in the small fanzine area of anarchism of 15 years ago. I do not know how popular it is today. Karl
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- Ah, I see - so you would find an "Anti-copyright" statement at the bottom of an article or something, kind of like a copyleft statement? Would it make sense to begin the article with something like "An anti-copyright statement is one which explicitly gives up any rights the owner may have under normal copyright laws"? That might make the subject of the article a bit clearer, I think (if it's accurate, that is). --Camembert
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- yes - typically such a statement is found in the masthead of a magazine, refering to its entire contents. It can also be attached to individual articles. It is like a copyleft statement. Ok, moving first bit of response to article.
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Hi Camaebert- I was going to go to bed but thought I'd quickly reply- as I see it, anti copyright is an explicit political statement of opposition to the concept of 'copyright', as opposed to say, wikipedia, which is non copyright- perhaps a subtle distinction, but I would agree that one need not necessarily be an anarchist to support the idea of anti-copyright. In a way it's a statement about the ownership or freedom of ideas...
I used to put out fanzines/pamphlets and what have you years ago that displayed the 'anti-copyright' symbol ( a copyright 'C' in a circle with a cross through it), but being a capitalist running dog these days I do actually consider my work 'copyright' (such as my self published books or indeed the original essays from which many of my wiki artcles on organic gardening, permaculture, etc, are drawn) nowadays for reasons I won't go into now... Urg,clear as mud no doubt but I must get some kip- work tommorrow, yippee!!! quercus robur
I wrote this without reading the above:
This is one anarchist view of intellectual property. It's written in encyclopedic style, at least, but it is inaccurate in a couple of ways:
- I've already corrected the reference to Property is Theft as Proudhon's "slogan".
- It is certainly not true that this represents everyone who calls him/herself an anarchist: especially not anarcho-capitalists, who hold the right of property above pretty much anything else, I think.
The article should be incorporated into libertarian socialism (or anarchist communism or anarcho-communism, wherever it ends up). However, it could get lengthy, so it's own article would also be good. This view of intellectual property is really a "communist" one, in its true sense; however, many anarchist communist and communist works are still copyrighted, so there is some controversy and possible hypocrisy to write about. --Sam
SchNEWS[1] is @nti-copyright. It says it is "information for action! Copy and distribute!" -- Sam
Thanks very much to all for the above - I'm off to bed myself shortly, and won't be around tomorrow, but I'll stick my head in here Wednesday to see what's happening and if I can maybe improve things a little. I'm anti-copyright myself in theory - I was involved on the periphery of the Droplift Project and a lot of my musical work would not be very well received by the RIAA (unfortuantely, I have to eat, and so until the revolution, theory is not always equivalent to practice). However, I wasn't sure if this had an article's worth of material in it - too similar to copyleft, maybe; or else why not incorporate it into copyright. I'm still not sure about this now.
I'm still a bit troubled by this article (though it's better than it was) - it isn't really clear to me whether anti-copyright ought to be treated as a concept ("anti-copyright is the belief that all copyright laws should be scrapped") or as a kind of anti-license ("an anti-copyright statement is one which gives up all rights to a work under copyright laws"). That's more of a question of which angle the subject is approchaed from than anything else. I suppose one might try to come at from both angles at once. Anyway, I'm probably not making much sense - I'll go away, mull it over, and hopefully return with a clearer vision of what might be done here. --Camembert
- I would think both - but in any case now that I have started this mess, I'm going to go away for a while and see what develops or disappears! Karl
[edit] The value of entertainment
I read through the bullet points under "Anti-copyright movement" listing arguments against copyright and I didn't find any arguments along a line of thought that I've had (any suggestions on how to word this better, and does anyone else think this way?):
In the case of entertainment works, the existance of a work may not raise one's quality of life. Instead, it may only raise the bar of quality of life. For example, if someone makes a movie and I watch it, I may be no better off than if that movie wasn't made (I'll just find something else to do). On the other hand, if someone makes the movie but I can't afford it, I'm worse off because my friends who watched it are talking about it and I'm left out. So the work shouldn't be copyrightable or else its mere existance will make people who can't afford it worse off. Rather, people who have seen it should be able to share it with their friends freely.
- Remember that wikipedia has a policy of No original research. Wikipedia isn't the right place to describe new ideas, but to describe (neutrally) the main arguments that others use. — Matt Crypto 09:39, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Marked pov
No attempt has even been made to balance this article with counter arguments. It is propoganda. I have serious doubts about whether this article should exist in its present form. Something like opinions on the value of copyright would be better. If it is just about a "movement" it should stick to history, and leave the pros and cons to a more broadranging article. Oliver Chettle 03:15, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- The only way I could possibly make this NPOV is by stubbing it. Computerjoe 11:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I'll take a stab at this
It seems that the first use of "anti-copyright" described above is entirely the same as placing a work in the public domain. By relinquishing all rights to a work, the creator cannot enforce any right over its subsequent use (as would be the case under copyleft schemes. The second use of the term is just an opinion and a political statement, and thus eliminates anti-copyright from holding a place in the section describing the facts and details of copyright and related schemes. An anarchist can believe anything he wants, but this won't get any laws overturned. (Speaking of which, is anyone aware of an anarchist refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the law of gravitation?) User:Kradak
- The word law has different meanings, see Law (disambiguation). Objecting to one meaning of a word does in no way require objecting to another meaning of the same word.
[edit] Situationists
Isn't the article most incomplete without mentioning Debord and the SI? And waht about the history? Can somebody volunteer a candidate for the first use of an explicit anti-copyright notice? Debord put 'All texts published in Potlatch can be reproduced, adapted or quoted without any mention of the source in Potlach, which was published 1954-1957. --Pjacobi 18:07, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Stop Curps From Vandalising This Article
Curps is keep inserting POV into this article and refuse to discuss. Amnesity 09:17, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
- This is the return of the old anti-Alkivar troll, creating armies of sockpuppets, targeting Warez and related articles. He was active a few months ago and now has returned, same old story. A new twist is involvement in Wikitruth. Also vandalizing some math articles for no good reason. -- Curps 09:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] busking?!?
"it is likely that popular artists will still be able to make a living by means of advertising and product promotion, as they do at present or perhaps by busking, if that is the only option open to them." what on earth were u thinking whenever [whoever] wrote that? i think britney spears (or popular artist X) would still do stadium tours and concerts if there were no copyright, rather than sitting on a street corner with a guitar and a cap for the loose change of passers by.
[edit] Cost of enforcing copyright
How much money does the government (e.g. courts, police) spend on investigating cases of alleged copyright infringement and prosecuting them?
