Talk:Assyrian people
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[edit] Khoikhoi's unwarranted edits
There was a referrence to what you removed claiming it as unsourced and none of your edits were discussed on the talk page.
- I found your replacement a load of nonsense. It may have been sourced, but the use of those sources made a nonsense of them. — Gareth Hughes 18:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Alqosh, the center of Assyrian Culture?
Come on now. That is highly disputable. It needs to be reworded to say the located in the midst of the Assyrian Heartland. That sounds more neutral. What about Araden or Tel Keppe?
- Maybe I worded wrong, but what I meant is that it is the largest Assyrian town today, in terms of population. Its like a self-proclaimed capital of Atoor. And you can see that if you ever visit these Iraqi villages. Chaldean 05:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Chaldos are not assyrians
Chaldos are not assyrians because they do not speak assyrian they speak chaldean. There for they should not be considered assyrians. They should be called chaldos and not assyrians. Their land should be called Chaldea.
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- Chaldos don't speak Assyrian, they speak Aramaic. Assyrians also speak Aramaic. Chaldean and Assyrian are dialects of Neo-Aramaic. Chaldeans are Assyrians that belong to the Chaldean Catholic Church. You people amongst me in the diaspora are oblivious to your history.סרגון יוחנא 22:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
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- Maybe you guys should check out this website, because so many of our people, as Sargonious stated, are oblivious to our history. http://www.assyriandoc.com/ --Šarukinu 23:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Lebanon?
This may be covered somewhere in the six archives that I don't have time to read, but this is the only page that relates Assyrians to Lebanon. I don't know anything about this subject and came here trying to look it up -- all of the other pages related to Assyria talk about Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. If Lebanon is in there too should it be explained here or fixed elsewhere? 75.56.54.56 17:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
- What are you asking? Lebanese people possibly being some descent of Assyrians? Chaldean 19:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
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- What I know of the Lebanese and Syrian communities around the world has a small Assyrian minority represented among them. I figure there are Assyrians, but in small numbers found in Australia, South America, East Asia and in parts of Sub-saharan Africa. Assyrians live wherever global Arab communities existed for over a century, so let's check out any more Assyrians in this wide world gets smaller and more connected. + 63.3.14.2 03:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The Maronites in Lebanon are of Assyrian origin.
[edit] High Relevant to this Article
Despite Garzo's opinion, this is further clarification of the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac naming crisis. I also have this under that Chaldean disambig page as well for it is relevant to that as well for not all may venture to this article.The Tsar is Gone but I am King 17:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac name crisis
First and formost none of the "Assyrian" or "Chaldean" Emperors referred to themselves as such. They all referred to themselves as Kings of "Sumer and Akkad." Assyrian (Babylonian as well) was coined by the Greeks centuries after (in a historical context) to refer to those whom held Ashur as the supreme diety in the land of Sumer and Akkad for example as the Jews referred to southern Mesopotamia as "Shinar" which meant "land of the moon [god]." "Babylonia" was also coined by the Greeks to refer to southern Mesopotamia which had its "capital" in Bab-ilu aka Kadingirra aka "Babylon." Just as people in ancient Sumer and Akkad referred to themselves by the city-state they inhabbited and religion they followed so do the modern people, they refer to their ethno-religious group by village and/or "national" origin. "Chaldean" was also coined by the Greeks to refer to the last indegenous conquerors of "Babylonia." In reality in the Syriac language we ALL refer to ourselves as Sourayeh or Souryoyeh which is simply translated as Syrian in English which itself is Greek-derived from the designation of the former colonial territories of Assyria for they referred to Sumer and Akkad as Assyria and its colonies (Aram and Canaan) as Syria. That is it in a nutshell. We are Sourayeh/Souryoyeh and ultimately we are Assyrian, Babylonian, and the "Sons and Daughters of the Fusion of Sumer and Akkad." We are Chaldean as well and we are Aramaean as well. However if you want to get into semantics, some hold the God Ashur as one with the Christian God Yah(weh) aka "God the Father" which himself started out as the Canaanite storm god which was roughly equivelent to Ashur and interpreted by the "Hebrews" as the one God; the so-called "sky axle" or "Holder of Heaven" therefore we are THE true "Assyrians" in an ethno-religious sense. Also compare Yah to Ea and you will see the origins of the Abrahamic religions lie in the land that is now called Iraq.
Chaldean is Greek-derived from the Akkadian_language form of "Kaldu" which in Hebrew is "Kasdu" which may actually be in refference to the Kassites whom once ruled Babylon well before the "Chaldean Dynasty." It was also used interchangebly with "Astrologer" in which Astrology was key in the Mesopotamian religion so even in that sense we are true "Chaldeans" as well for Judaism is a monotheistic religion that evoloved from it and gradually evolved into Christianity and even Islam.
- You cannot simply say that Chaldean and Assyrian are names derived from Greeks, or Islam or what have you. Unless you have strong concrete evidence, you cannot prove that the Assyrian is a derived name any more than it is a true one. Tourskin 19:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
- You cannot simply make an argument so weak and expect someone to simply doubt my statement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.60.34.207 (talk) 05:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Assyrian Americans' favorite meal...
Assyrian Americans love Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles and their favorite desert to chase it after chowing down on some Fried Chicken and Waffles is Watermellon. And if ya don't know now ya know sand ni... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.15.7.70 (talk) 20:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Ephrem the Syrian
Ephrem the Syrian's picture should be removed from this article. The word "Assyrian" is not mentioned in the article Ephrem the Syrian, not even once! --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 09:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- We've had this discussion before and its in the archive 6. He was a Suraya, enough said. Chaldean 14:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- The discussion was never brought to a conclusion, no convincing evidence was ever presented. You might believe Sur(y)aya to be synonymous with Assyrian, but that is disputed. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 14:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Well that is not disputed among Assyrians. And like we've said this again and again; this page is a representation of the Assyrian community. Their beliefs, their views, etc. Chaldean 14:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- It's not. If that's what you want Wikipedia to be, I suggest you start your own website. The Islam article does not reflect the beliefs of the Islamic community, it contains encyclopaedic information about that subject. Likewise should this article reflect what is known about the people who consider themselves Assyrians. The fact that you consider Ephrem the Syrian an Assyrian, does not make him one. I believe him to be of Aramaean descent (as do many Syriac Orthodox), but I don't put his picture on the Aramaeans page, unless I can provide ample evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Benne (talk • contribs) 15:02, 5 March 2007.
- You can't put the word Aramean with the same level as Assyrian. One is recognized by the international body as the direct desents of the ancient Assyrians, while the other was created in Northern Europe couple decades ago. This page is about the Assyrian community, in case you haven't noticed it by now. Chaldean 15:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- As Assyrians claim Ephrem as one of their great historical figures I think it's fine to include him here as a part of modern Assyrian culture. However, it would be another matter to call Ephrem an Assyrian, that would be anachronistic. No contemporary or near-contemporary literature calls him Assyrian. He is called ܣܘܪܝܝܐ, which is translated 'the Syrian' in English, and would be inappropriate to translate as 'Assyrian' (that is ܐܬܘܪܝܐ). He was a native of Nisibis, which was only ever annexed to Adiabene. He can be called Nisibene (or Edessan, refering to where he later settled) or Mesopotamian, because that is where he lived. He can be called Syriac because that was the language in which he wrote. He is called Syrian in English mostly by convention, but as a translation of his usual epithet ܣܘܪܝܝܐ, as above. Any other descriptions would be inaccurate. So, all in all, yes Ephrem is an important figure in Assyrian culture, but no it would be technically inappropriate to say he was Assyrian. If anyone wants to find decent references that state Ephrem is Assyrian, present them, and we'll discuss them, but, if the claim cannot be sourced, it should not be made. — Gareth Hughes 15:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Gareth, Nisibis was in fact an Assyrian city in times predating the kingdom of Adiabene (or Osroene). It was the seat of a provincial governor named Šamaš-abua at least since 851 BC[1]. So it's safe to say that Nisibis was quite (if not heavily) Assyrianized, especially at the time of Tiglath-Pileser III.
- It's not. If that's what you want Wikipedia to be, I suggest you start your own website. The Islam article does not reflect the beliefs of the Islamic community, it contains encyclopaedic information about that subject. Likewise should this article reflect what is known about the people who consider themselves Assyrians. The fact that you consider Ephrem the Syrian an Assyrian, does not make him one. I believe him to be of Aramaean descent (as do many Syriac Orthodox), but I don't put his picture on the Aramaeans page, unless I can provide ample evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Benne (talk • contribs) 15:02, 5 March 2007.
- Well that is not disputed among Assyrians. And like we've said this again and again; this page is a representation of the Assyrian community. Their beliefs, their views, etc. Chaldean 14:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- The discussion was never brought to a conclusion, no convincing evidence was ever presented. You might believe Sur(y)aya to be synonymous with Assyrian, but that is disputed. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 14:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Benne, I know where you stand on this whole identity issue, but please be mindful to the possibility that Ashuraya and Suryaya are synonymous terms. I can direct you to several scholarly sources if you wish. Here's a report by AINA (Assyrian International News Agency) - which I DON'T trust completely because AINA is often biased - but they make reference to a very important archeological find in Turkey, published in the Journal of Near Eastern Studies. http://www.aina.org/ata/20070218144107.htm
- Again, do not pay so much attention to the opinions in the article, because I'm sure you will not agree with them right away (I myself found it to be a little bit biased, but with a good cause). I think I have a copy of the journal article lying around somewhere, so if you like I can send you a copy. Basically, they found a bilingual inscription (in Luwian, an ancient Anatolian language, and Phoenician) in which an Anatolian king makes reference to the Assyrians as "Sur" in the Luwian language, and "Assur" in Phoenician. Check it out and let me know what you think, ahono. Šarukinu 14:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Assyrians in UK
I have come across a building connected to the "Assyrian Society United Kingdom" - but there are no references on the internet. Anyone care to develop? Jackiespeel 19:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Assyrian Republican Army
When the hell will we be armed and allowed to do to the entire Arab League what Israel has done to Palestine only tenfold?The Tsar is Gone but I am King 14:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Please reconsider rephrasing - some people might take offence. Jackiespeel 22:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ASSYRIANS
I have researched the world fact book at the UNEP centre and it states that today's Assyrians have the name because of the geographic location and there is no connection between the Modern day Assyrians and those Semitic people who once lived in Mesopotamia.
Most Assyrians are Tel Keifis and they are Indo europeans who moved in from Asia they are an Asiatic people and BABYLONIANS ARE NOT ASSYRIANS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mriraq (talk • contribs) 13:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC).
The same argument could be made of quite a few "geographical locator based regional population names." The British today are not the same as the Britons of the Roman period etc. Jackiespeel 17:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
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- Hahaha, Indo Europeans. Wow, it's amazing what people come up with these days. It's very possible that we Assyrians have Indo-European blood in our ancestry, but the extent to which that is true is disputable, and thus it is not certain. For the most part, our lineage is of Assyrian ancestry, and to say that modern Assyrians are strictly Indo-European is quite ignorant, because you have not considered the Assyrian people's history after the fall of the empire in 610BC, and the fact we Assyrians are a Semitic people who have spoken a Semitic language for thousands of years. There is no evidence that the ancient Assyrians were completely whiped out or mass-deported - in stead, they continuously inhabited the region of Assyria-proper, fleeing to the surrounding mountainous areas whenever certain situations necessitated it. Another major aspect of our identity is that we identify more with the Assyrian culture than any other, which has a certain history of roughly 4000 years (~7000 if you go with the traditional date).
[edit] Modern Aramaic dialects of Syriac?
I added a [citation needed] tag to the sentence where modern Aramaic languages are called dialects of Syriac, which, as far as I know, is not true. Turoyo, for example, comes from a different branch of Aramaic than Syriac. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 16:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
- What new invention are you trying to make now Benne? Hmm...from Syriac language;
- Modern Syriac (a Modern Eastern Aramaic language), which remains divided:
- Modern Western Syriac (Turoyo and Mlahsô)
- Modern Eastern Syriac (Assyrian Neo-Aramaic, Chaldean Neo-Aramaic etc.). Chaldean 16:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
