Talk:Austerity

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According to User:Herschelkrustofsky, the older version of the article is better. I disagree because the older version is very biased. For example:

• "reduce living standards, curtail development projects..." (these are not necessarily part of an austerity policy; the only requirement is a reduction of spending, although typically, this does result in lower living standards, etc)
• "cutting food or fuel subsidies, underfunding infrastructure (transport, education, health care, water and power management), or rationing" (this paints a very negative picture (very POV) of austerity policies; the newer text is neutral)

Therefore, I have reverted to the 'newer' version of the article. Mat334 19:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that you may be attempting to put lipstick on a pig. You concede that austerity typically lowers living standards. Can you cite an example of an austerity program that did not involve some combination of "cutting food or fuel subsidies, underfunding infrastructure (transport, education, health care, water and power management), or rationing"? --HK 01:30, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I can think of two. A key aspect of Austria's recent austerity policy was getting rid of early retirement. And, in the early 1980s, Libya pursued an austerity policy that involved decreasing the number of foreigners working in the country and not paying money owed to foreign contractors. I don't know for sure whether Austria or Libya also cut subsidies, underfunded infrastructure (by the way, underfunding according to who?), or implemented rationing. However, it is in any case quite conceivable that a government could go ahead with an austerity policy that focuses solely on getting rid of early retirement or not paying money to foreigners. Such actions may well lower living standards, but they don't necessarily. Perhaps if people work longer, society will become richer. And using national (as oppposed to foreign) contractors probably increases employment, and therefore can often lift people out of poverty. Austerity = restrictions on government spending. Restrictions can have good, as well as bad, consequences. (And I say this despite being a libertarian.) Mat334 03:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

All right, how about re-writing the article to say that austerity policies typically have the aforementioned unpleasant effects, but noting that there are two exceptions? I think it is also fair to say that austerity policies are often associated with the IMF, whose critics are legion -- they are sort of like a giant collection agency. --HK 12:51, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Good, I agree with your wording, except I would note that there are exceptions (not necessarily just two!) and list those two exceptions. Unless you or someone else writes it, I'll get to it on Wednesday. However, I'm not familiar enough with criticism of the IMF to write an outline of it. And in any case, I'm not sure how much of this criticism belongs to this article. Mat334 23:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I have just done a general re-write, which is a hybrid of the two previous versions with the addition of the language we discussed. Let me know what you think. --HK 22:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I have reverted your re-write because it appears based on LaRouche concepts and terms, including "physical economy", and because it had no sources. -Willmcw 23:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Here is a small selection ([1][2][3][4][5][6]) from the over 20 million references to "physical economy" on Google where there is no connection whatsoever to LaRouche. Willmcw, despite the extraordinary and inexplicable leniency shown to you by the ArbCom in your recent case, I ask that you desist from your highly unproductive harassment. --HK 14:36, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

At least several of those sources use "physical economy" as an alternative to the internet ecomony. That is clearly not the meaning that you were using. Speaking of Google, what are the first entries that you get for "physical economy"? Yep, all LaRouche. -Willmcw 19:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

What about Google Books? Paroxysm 20:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

And how do those books relate to the topic of this article, austerity? -Willmcw 22:45, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

None of them appear to be connected to "LaRouche," so I assume they're not all using "LaRouchisms." // paroxysm (n) 23:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

And what is the bearing of "physical economy" on this article? Does anyone suggest that those seeking austerity programs wish governments to move investment to the "Internet Ecomomy" from the "Physical "Economy"? -Willmcw 02:05, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I think Willmcw has a valid point. Austerity policies are most generally characterised by a reduction of public spending in general, and not necessarily in the "physical economy". Whether or not "physical economy" is a "LaRouchism" is irrelevant; the term should not be in the article, except maybe in one sentence closer to the end. Mat334 02:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Mat334, I suggest that you re-write the article as you see fit -- use whatever you find in my version that you think is useful. Willmcw's presence in this discussion serves one purpose only -- he is grasping at straws, looking for a pretext to ban me. I don't intend to give him one. --HK 02:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

There is a link to [[Development]] on this page that is linking to a disambiguation page. I'm not sure which (if any) of the more specific pages on types of development would be a better link in this context. Could someone please review the choices available and either re-direct the link or delete it? Thanks.—Chidom ^talk  08:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)