Talk:Friday Night Lights (TV series)

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Contents 1 Deleted Trivia Items 2 Fictional Game Results 3 13 episodes so far 4 Guy in the bed 5 Cancelled 6 Ratings 7 Represent 8 Texas Monthly? 9 Trivia editing 10 Theme music 11 Cast and Characters section

[edit] Deleted Trivia Items

Hi,

I deleted these two trivia items because not only were they not sourced but I could see no realistic way to ever be able to source them. If someone can find a source for them that would be great but at this point I don't even know if they are true and, as A man in black rightly pointed out, the Trivia section needs to go.

• Many bands that became famous in the 1990's are mentioned in the show, such as Nirvana and the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

• Songs used in promotional spots for the series have included Fort Minor's "Remember the Name", Howie Day's "Collide," Sheryl Crow's "Strong Enough," My Chemical Romance's "Welcome to the Black Parade" and Brand New's "Jesus Christ".

ThomasC22 10:07, 21 March 2007

[edit] Fictional Game Results

The game results section is clearly an Exception to the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction)and should remain. The original chart (which I did not create) did not have proper citations and I corrected that. Please do not delete it again. ThomasC22 16:49, 19 March 2007

Um. It's completely in-universe, and often not even important to the story. It's not an exception to WP:WAF at all; in fact, it's exactly what WP:WAF instructs us not to do. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

First, its absolutely relevant in that it details the progression of the story just as the plot section does. The series is the story of this season of the Dillon Panther football so saying the results of the games in that season isn't relevant doesn't track.

Second, the whole reason for not having an "In-Universe" perspective is that it lends itself to, as the article puts it, creative interpretation. A chart doesn't fall victim to that because a chart is simply a recitation of facts. Under the exceptions portion it says the following...

"Of course, out-of-universe information needs context; details of creation, development, etc. are more helpful if the reader understands a fictional element's role in its own milieu. This often involves using the fiction to give plot summaries, character descriptions or biographies, or direct quotations. By convention, these synopses should be written in the present tense, as they describe a piece of fiction that does not change when it is read, watched, or played from one instance to the next. This is not inherently bad, if the fictional passages are short, are given the proper context, and do not constitute the main portion of the article. If such passages stray into the realm of interpretation, secondary sources must be provided to avoid original research."

This is exactly what the chart is, its short (as short as possible because its a chart with no exposition whatsoever), the text I put above the chart gives it proper context (e.g. these are the games of the FICTIONAL...) and (again by the nature of a chart) features no interpretation whatsoever.

The guidelines then goes on to say that...

"Note that when using the fictional work itself to write these descriptions the work of fiction must be cited as a source."

Which is exactly why I edited the original chart creators work to add the episode name and number for each score as a citation.

Further, my original point still stands. The article for the TV Series West Wing has reached Featured Article status and it goes extensively into the fictional world of the series including sections on each fictional presidential election (which is virtually the same concept as here its just an election vs a football game)

ThomasC22 17:08, 19 March 2007

The game results are so unimportant that often they aren't even mentioned in the episode. This is interpretive, trivial information backed by personal observation of the work of fiction itself, and it treats the fictional universe as though it were the real one, giving a sports-almanac-style summary of a season that exists only in fiction.

We don't give results like this for real-world teams. Why on earth would we do this for fictional ones? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well first, you're wrong there. Every score but one has been mentioned, if it hadn't, they wouldn't exist to be cited in the chart. Second, real teams aren't relevant. This is documentation of a work of fiction not an actual team so the question is "what is the acceptable standard for that" This is where my West Wing point comes into play as it is a Featured Article using the same logic. The election is relevant to the West Wing because if the fictional president lost there would be no show, the winning scores are relevant here because if the team lost there would be no show.

ThomasC22 17:08, 19 March 2007

Every single article can't be cleaned up simultaneously, and The West Wing (TV series) doesn't mention election results at all, save as part of prose summarizing the story. You've made a sports almanac-style table that mixes important and trivial information liberally, treats a fictional universe as though it were real, and duplicates the plot summary elsewhere in the article.

Can you see the difference between the two? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

You're just wrong here, the main article references a sub article which has a chart listing statistics of the election. See here: The_West_Wing_presidential_election%2C_2002

Also, where does it duplicate the plot summary? Because I wrote the plot summary, today, and its pretty frest in my mind and I don't see any duplication.

ThomasC22 17:08, 19 March 2007

Wow, that's a terrible article, everything that we shouldn't be doing on Wikipedia. Don't mistake a terrible sub-article as part of the featured article. The fact that one team won or lost is important, and the score is sometimes important. However, exact scores aren't important for each game, and in two different cases you're just inferring the score. Plus, this chart includes a game that isn't ever even depicted, just mentioned in passing.

Each game is of roughly equal importance to the fictional world, but each game isn't equally important in the real world. This table uses the fictional world's priorities, and includes info important to the fictional world whether it's important to the real one or not. That's what WP:WAF is telling you not to do when it's telling you that you shouldn't write content that "treats the fiction as if it were real, and describes it from the perspective of the people and characters of the fictional universe." - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it may very well be a terrible article but it isn't wholly unacceptable and it takes what the chart in question does and goes way overboard with the concept.

Let me try this, imagine a wikipedia article about a fictional greek god who has to overcome challenges to earn...whatever. Would a listing of the challenges that greek god had to overcome be unacceptable? I don't think so because it is part of the story and the challenges that the greek god had to overcome puts the character itself in context.

Same here, the fictional team is as much a character in the series and any of the people on the team and the most important thing you can know about a team is their standing. That is what the chart provides. Now you could try to do the same thing in a narrative but then you get into the problem of creative interpretation. If I write a narrative saying how the teams they played got harder to beat as the story went on I'm then making the mistake of creating original research. With the chart, the reader can make up their own mind based on the fictional facts presented. Plus, what the chart also does is to keep everything in present tense which is a key point made in the "Exceptions" section of the WP:WAF.

Perhaps more to the point though is this, though you still might not agree with me I think I've put forward enough to indicate that I COULD be right. So, when given something that is debatable isn't it best to err in the direction of giving the reader as much information as possible?

ThomasC22 22:15, 19 March 2007

As a possible compromise I moved the chart to the Plot section and tied it into the plot narrative to re-enforce the fictional nature of it. ThomasC22 00:44, 20 March 2007

That doesn't solve the problem. Again, you're still mixing important and unimportant detail, with no distinction between same, arranged in a way that doesn't mirror the real-world arrangement. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I replied more below but again, what you are saying is that YOU, not the guidelines, don't consider this information important. Where as I, the person who originally created the chart, and all the people who created and edited those West Wing articles all believe this type of information is important and relevant.

ThomasC22 12:44, 20 March 2007

Just documenting here that I reverted your edits again (and will continue to do so). I'm open to compromise of some sort (and as shown above have tried to bring it about) but your argument seems to simply boil down to "you don't think this information is relevant". That isn't a guideline issue as I've shown this chart fits well within the exceptions to the guidelines you cited and have pointed out articles that have similar charts (so clearly there are a lot of people who think this type of information is relevant).

More importantly, I again make the point that when in doubt Wikipedia editors should err on the side of giving as much information as possible instead of deleting information that could be relevent based on their personal preferences. ThomasC22 12:44, 20 March 2007

Wikipedia editors should err on the side of summarizing fictional stories, not recreating fictional worlds in explicit detail. That's the point of WP:WAF, and "specific fictional statistics" are even called out as an example of what we shouldn't be doing. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

For the record, I don't entirely disagree with you its just that the WP:WAF is painfully contradictory in its descriptions which makes this a grey area. Look at the cited Captain Marvel (the DC version) article. This article is cited in the actual WP:WAF documentation but if you look under the "Powers and Abilities" section it does exactly what the chart in this article does (e.g. lists the powers of Captain Marvel which are attributes of the fictional character just as game standing is a fictional attribute of a Football team)

Anyway, sorry you went away angry, hope the fact that I knocked out the Trivia section makes you feel a little better.

ThomasC22 12:44, 20 March 2007

[edit] 13 episodes so far

NBC has already ordered 13 episodes and so far 6 of the 13 have been filmed. I'm looking forward to Gaius Charles role. I wonder if he's new or in the role of Jett Jackson. I hope not. I want these to be all-new characters.

[edit] Guy in the bed

The thing with shows like these is, they have to much drama in it. They try to take the last episode, and twist it up so crazy, so that when you miss two episodes, you come back to a guy dead and a child molestor father, sometimes it just confuses me. I had high hopes for Friday Night Lights, but the QB getting paralized and watching football players cry? C'mon... My point is, something should be added about the drama in this show, more than mentioning it's "a drama". Thanks Kyle 02:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Guy dead and a child molestor father? I think you might be thinking about another show.

[edit] Cancelled

Im terrible with html, so could some edit this to show it's canceled.

Where was this reported? Some edit could be made, but there has to be a reference...WestWingFan 01:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind I thought it was canceled. Although i have seen several rumors saying it's on the verge of being canceled.Superway25 02:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

One of the NBC executives said that Friday Night Lights (like Studio 60) is still turning a profit (Steve Something, I think... ), and will continue to run for at least the rest of this season. Keep in mind, I don't remember where I saw this, and cannot find it anywhere. Trocisp 01:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I actually heard NBC is picking it up for a second season. Hope its true, this show is the only reason why I watch TV.Ychennay 04:45, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ratings

Is it worth mentioning that NBC made the brilliant decision to air a football show against Monday Night Football (an American Football institution!) and against the World Series (yet another American sports institution)? Would it not stand to reason that doing so would adversely effect the ratings? I don't know if this belongs on the main page. 128.195.111.164 12:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)intrepidsfsu

[edit] Represent

The team played my high school on the 5th episode. The maroon team they placed is an exact replica of the A&M Consolidated High School. Uniforms looks the same... they're the tigers... even the mascot shown briefly is EXACTLY the same. It's probably worth noting how these teams are modeled around real teams. :)--CountCrazy007 08:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Texas Monthly?

I'm not going to change it, but could someone justify why Texas Monthly's negative review is notable to the point where it deserves a specific mention? Texas Monthly is not exactly the New York Times. The AFI, on the other hand, has legitimate prestige, although the deservedness of that prestige might be up for debate.

Considering Texas Monthly has a circulation of 300,00 with nearly 2.5 million readers, I'd think it bears some importance, especially considering it's the only review in the article from a publication that is from Texas... To tough to die 21:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

300,000 sounds impressive, until you compare it to the circulations of magazines like Time or Newsweek (around 4,000,000). Even the New York Times has a circulation of over 1,000,000. Texas Monthly caters to a very "niche" market, and I still don't think they're a prestigious enough publication to warrant such a specific mention. But I don't feel so strongly about this matter that I'm going to remove it.

[edit] Trivia editing

I just deleted the following: "Matt Saracen and Smash Williams wear the numbers 7 and 20, respectively, as do Chad Henne and Mike Hart of the University of Michigan." A cute coincidence, but barring any evidence that it's anything more than a coincidence, it shouldn't be on the page.--Eirishis 16:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Theme music

Are we sure that it's "Your Hand in Mine"? I have that song, and I just don't hear it in the theme music. They're both in 3/4 time, but that strikes me as the only similarity. Bdure 02:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I know for a fact it's not anything by Explosions In The Sky. Even though when I had closed captions on, it said that the song was 'Remember Me As A Time Of Day' by EITS. I read somewhere that the music was composed by WG 'Snuffy' Walden and another guitarist. I REALLY want this piece of music in its entirety so if anyone has it or knows where to get it, please post.

[edit] Cast and Characters section

Can someone explain to me why there is both a cast and character section, with the character section having the same information as the cast section? If I don't hear a good reason in the next few days I am going to remove the cast section. 64.132.190.26 19:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)