Talk:Gary Gygax

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Contents 1 Biography assessment rating comment 2 The Name 3 Lejendary Adventure Online 4 Inline extern links dispute 5 Overkill? 6 Gygax and Tolkien 7 Gore and Gygax reversion 8 Other Gygax's? 9 On linking "TSR" name variations 10 Gary's "a million and a half in debt" quote 11 Unsourced paragraph 12 Is Gary a Jehovah's Witness? 13 Non Gaming Information

[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment Drive

This article is narrowly a B-rating as it needs an infobox, but is otherwise comprehensive.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 07:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Name

Gygax apparently means GIANT AXE, Gyg being norse for giant, and Ax being norse for axe.

Harald Potter —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.245.176.93 (talk) 21:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Lejendary Adventure Online

Is Lejendary Adventure Online dead? The article makes it sound like it is, but I found the website and it appears to be active. Can someone confirm if it was killed? If so/not, we should clarify the wording in the article. —Frecklefoot 15:58, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Inline extern links dispute

My esteemed colleague, Gracefool prefers inline extern links. That is, links to external sites within the article rather than using the links as cites or footnotes (See this edit). However, the Manual of Style discourages this practice and gives some advice on how to avoid their use. I'm not changing Gracefool's edit, I just wanted to note my position and his in case it comes up again. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:30, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Overkill?

Can someone let me know if the "Job Titles" section is overkill or relative information? --Kim Nevelsteen 23:30, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't know, I think it's mildly interesting. It could be formatted a whole lot better, however. — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I am first going to get all the bio info up there and it cited before I worry too much about formatting. Thanks. --Kim Nevelsteen 15:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gygax and Tolkien

I started writing a summary of why Tolkien was an appropriate entry as an influence upon Gygax, but upon double checking I notice that the sentence in question says, "For the spell systems, Gygax would be inspired by...." Indeed, there is little to no evidence that D&D spell systems were influenced by Tolkien and a great deal of evidence that the spell systems were influenced by other fantasy writers.

That said, it may be worth noting that Tolkien pretty clearly influenced D&D in a number of ways. Most visably, the initial printing of D&D included both hobbits and ents. The hobbits and ents in D&D are extremely similar to Tolkien's version of them. Tolkien's work was at the time very popular among fantasy fans (which Gygax clearly is, given his other influences). Tolkien was clearly the first to define hobbits and may have coined the term (The Wikipedia entry on hobbit gives some good details). Given all of this, it's likely that Gygax was influenced by Tolkien, just not in the spell system area. (For those unfamiliar, D&D quickly renamed hobbits to halflings because the Tolkien estate holds the trademark to the word after Tolkien named the original book The Hobbit. Ents were renamed treants, but I have no idea why. There is, to my knowledge, no trademark and you cannot copyright a single word.)

Alan De Smet | Talk 21:50, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

There is a difference between having someone influence your work and entering creatures and tales into your work as a tribute to another author. --None-of-the-Above 07:28, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gore and Gygax reversion

Regarding this reversion by K.Nevelsteen of Grazon's change. Probably the right thing to do; it wasn't well sourced and was very confusing. That said, the "his appearence when, where, in what media?" is easy: the Futurama episode cited directly above. Both Gygax and Gore lent their voices to that episode. Gore is present at the end of the episode when Gygax starts a D&D game. He says something to the effect, "I'm a 13th level vice-president."

More questionable is Grazon's claim that "Gore's wife hates D&D." That's news to me, but some quick searching does suggest it might be true. this link claims to be an excerpt from her book in which she links D&D to satanism. The core idea: that there is an interesting coincidence between Al Gore acting with Gygax versus Tipper Gore disliking D&D may be worth researching. The sentence may belong is a better phrased and more strongly researched form. I'll see what I can dig up (but don't let me stop someone else from fixing it first).

I have a problem with the sentence because it is weakly formulated and not backed up. The claim itself is not a problem. --None-of-the-Above 07:28, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other Gygax's?

The Lost City of Gaxmoor (ISBN 1-931275-07-6) is listed as by by Ernie and Luke Gygax. I have a suspicion Ernie is one of his sons rather than another name for E Gary Gygax, but who is Luke? another son or grandson from Gygax first marriage? It would be good if someone had the info to adde this to the biography.

Do you want his entire family listed? Yes, Luke is his son. And there is an Ernest Jr. Indeed as well. --None-of-the-Above 09:19, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

List entire family? Well yes. Biographical information usually includes references to at least immediate family. I also think it is very noteable that 2 of his children have been involved in the RPG industry that E Gary Gygax basically started. -Waza 21:38, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I have the info. I will see that I can add it in an appropriate place. Did you want to know about his grandchildren as well? =) He's got lots of grandkids. --None-of-the-Above 07:28, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I think a brief listing of his kids, and possible which mother they go with would be appropriate, though I don't know about his grandkids. Perhaps the best place would be in the Biography area, under a new sub-section called Family...?--Azathar 17:49, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Any of Gary's family who has their own Wikipedia entry for their own actions deserves a link. Anyone who Gary is noteworty for influencing (or being influenced by) deserves a link. Thus, if a divorce was a big impact in Gary's life and decisions, that wife's name probably belongs. If his kids are in the industry, it seems likely that he influenced that decision and they deserve a brief mention. Beyond that I'd keep it general, "Gary Gygax has been married X times and sired Y children." Grandchildren is probably far enough from Gygax that in general I wouldn't bother any mention at all, unless one of the other cases above applies. By way of example, I don't want John F. Kennedy's entry to list his enter family tree, but a lot of Kennedy's before and after have been involved in politics and probably deserve brief mentions in John's entry. Alan De Smet | Talk 22:50, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Good luck figuring out Gary's ex-wife's name. When I asked him, "What is your ex-wife's name?" He simply replied, "My ex-wife". Usually his kids have authored something here or there, but I don't think it is mainstream yet. --None-of-the-Above 06:31, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

According to this article [1] he has daughters named Heidi, Cindy and Lisa and his ex-wife's name was Mary Jo -- DizietSma 03:24, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Children added. --None-of-the-Above 07:23, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] On linking "TSR" name variations

Just a heads up for anyone links variations on the name TSR: The Wikipedia page is TSR, Inc.. That page includes a very complete discussion of previous names (notably "Tactical Studies Rules" and "TSR Hobbies, Inc"), so linking the previous names is unnecessary. I rewrote the ones I found to link directly to TSR, Inc. while keeping the text of the name. Alan De Smet | Talk 15:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gary's "a million and a half in debt" quote

User:131.216.163.92 changed "a million and a half in debt" to "$15 million". While I think the correct number if $15M, the text in question is part of a quotation directly from Gygax's mouth at [2], thus it shouldn't be changed. Given that it was transcribed as "a million and a half" and not "1.5 million" (a much more plausible typo), I believe that the transcription was accurate. Alan De Smet | Talk 20:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

• it is NOT part of the original quote. It is garbage introduced by a previous edit. I checked the reference that *I* submitted to double check. So there shouldn't be a 15 or 1.5 unless there is a source along with it. --None-of-the-Above 19:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced paragraph

I am removing the following paragraph because it is completely unsourced. If it can be sourced, then I would be glad to accept it as an edit. It was changed on revision [3] --None-of-the-Above 19:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

It was through the IFW that Gygax met Don and Julie Lowry, who owned and operated a mail-order business selling products of interest to wargamers and other military hobbyists. The Lowrys had booths to sell products at some of the early GenCons. They also had their own press with which they printed their catalogs, and they took over Panzerfaust, a wargaming magazine, from Don Greenwood when the latter went to work for Avalon Hill. Gygax was the "miniatures editor" for Panzerfaust (later renamed Campaign) and convinced them to publish rulebooks for miniatures gaming in various epocs, beginning with Chainmail in 1971. This line carried the name Guidon Games. Gygax also designed two board games for Guidon Games: Dunkirk and Alexander the Great; the rights to the latter were later bought by Avalon Hill. In 1973 Gygax refered the designer of the board game Dungeon to Don Lowry, then in Maine, who admired the game but knew that he did not have the resources to do it justice. Gygax mentioned, in a phone discussion of Dungeon, that he also had a game with a similar flavor, called Dungeons & Dragons, which would not involve the production costs of Dungeon, but which would require one "player" to design "dungeons" that the other players could send their characters through, while the designer of the dungeon revealed information only as the players' characters would access it. Based on this description, Lowry decided that there would be little market for such a game, as it required too much work on the part of the dungeon designers, while the other players would have all the fun.

[edit] Is Gary a Jehovah's Witness?

A recent edit added Gary to Category:Jehovah's Witnesses people. 1. Is it true? I can find one citation: [4] which claims "The truth is that the co-authors of the original D&D game were Gary Gygax and David Arneson, who are Jehovah's Witness and Born-Again Christian, respectively." I'd be happier if I could find at least one more citation. 2. Is it relevant? As far as I know Gary has not made this a significant part of his public life. I'd expect the category to be people who were major parts of the faith or had made it a significant part of their public life. (Otherwise, for example, I'd expect Category:Christian people to be a list thousands of entries long.) 3. Why isn't in the article proper? If it is true and relevant, it should probably be in the biography proper ("Gary Gygax is a Jehovah's Witness."), not hidden in the category listings at the bottom. Alan De Smet | Talk 23:09, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I am doubtful of this inclusion as well.--Esprit15d 14:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Given that no one spoke up in defense of the inclusion, I've pulled it for the reasons above. If anyone disagrees, please let us know what your reasoning is. Alan De Smet | Talk 03:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Not that this is citeable (sp?), he is a Jehovah's Witness, at least that is what he told me (and some others)at a Con in Portsmouth, NH, where I met him a few years back, and was able to play in a game he was DM'ing. I was a bit surprised about it, but he doesn't appear to be strict about it.--Azathar 15:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Being a member of Gary's talk list, there was an interesting discussion of religion a while back. I'm not exactly sure if Gary's a formal member of any Watchtower society, and he did not specifically identify himself as a member of that faith, but he does follow a lot of the tenants of their beliefs. For instance, he believes in Annihilationism instead of Hell, uses Jehovah as the term to describe "God the Father", is not a Trinitarian, etc. If I remember correctly, he had mentioned as a youngster being raised as a Seventh-day Adventist, although I could be mistaken (my e-mail archives are a bit on the fritz right now). There was an interesting debate between him and Christopher Spiller, a devout Catholic, on several of these subjects. JRT 01:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non Gaming Information

I'd be interested in seeing some non gaming info on Gary, such as did he go to college, if so, where, when and what did he study? What did he do professionally before writing games? Pdarley 21:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)