Talk:Gertrude Stein
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[edit] Smelly
The following edit, [[1]], appears to be vandalism. Hyacinth 20:48, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Sure looks like it to me.. She had a husband??? Not in any other bios of her I've read. She was deported by Teddy Roosevelt?? Again, not in other bios. Besides, she was a native-born citizen; how could she be deported? Will look further, but think it should be reverted..
- Very strange case, though. Doesn't look like most vandalism. Too Old 04:30, 2005 May 4 (UTC)
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- Just noted the discrepancy of dates: 1903 - family moved back to Germany; later she moved to US and became politically active; 1903 - she was deported to Germany by Teddy Roosevelt, because of political activism. It gets reverted.. Too Old 04:42, 2005 May 4 (UTC)
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- I would't worry about the dates; the changes were simple vandalism. Her father Daniel was a clothier, not a mill worker. She lived in the US not Germany, she was born in 1874, not 1847, she left the US of her own volition, she didn't marry any man, she wasn't a Nazi, and she didn't keep her rat feces in mason jars. Etc. - Nunh-huh 04:50, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] stein date of death
The article for July 27 lists Stein as being one of the people that died on that date. The article on Stein lists her date of death as July 29.
[edit] Some suggested edits
Hi. This is my first time on Wiki, so please bear with me and correct me if I do anything wrong. I guess I'm picking poor Gertrude for my editorial guinea-pig - hope she won't mind. Hope you won't also. Anyway, just some suggestions mostly about style, fitting enough as Gertrude was above all a stylist.
In 1902 she moved to France during the height of artistic creativity gathering in Montparnasse. From 1903 to 1912 she lived in Paris with her brother Leo, who became an accomplished art critic. Stein, a lesbian, met her life-long companion Alice B. Toklas in 1907; Alice moved in with Leo and Gertrude in 1909. During her whole life, Stein was supported by a stipend from her brother Michael's business.[She lived off a stipend from her father's estate which her brother Michael very capably stewarded and invested. She did not live off her brother Michael's money.]
No problems with the facts, but I feel they could be better presented. (For example, the first sentence reads awkwardly, and the last, leading on to the sentence "She and her brother compiled one of the first collections of Cubist art," implies that Michael, and not Leo, was the art collector). I suggest something like: "Throughout her life, Gertrude was supported by a stipend from her brother Michael[She lived off a stipend from her father's estate which her brother Michael very capably stewarded and invested. She did not live off her brother Michael's money.]. In 1902 she moved to Paris, and from 1903 to 1912 lived at the centre of the Montparnasse art world with another brother, Leo. The pair established an artistic and literary salon, and together they built up one of the first collections of Cubist art, including early works of Pablo Picasso (who became a friend and painted her portrait), Henri Matisse, Andre Derain plus other young painters. A lesbian, in 1907 Gertrude met her life-long companion, Alice B. Toklas, who moved in to the Stein household in 1909." (Incidentally, is it accurate to characterise her collection as being of Cubist art alone? - most of the artists mentioned here were not noted primarily as Cubists. If you agree, the word Cubist could be replaced with 'avant-garde' or something similar).
Extremely charming, eloquent, cheerful and overweight, she had a large circle of friends and tirelessly promoted herself. Her judgments in literature and art were highly influential.
I feel uneasy with the portrayal of GS as a self-promoter. Perhaps she was, but far more important was that she promoted the new artists and writers. Perhaps it could be amended to something like: "Charming, eloquent, cheerful and overweight, she had a large circle of friends from the artisitic and literary worlds and tirelessly promoted those she believed worthy of recognition [Gertrude did not tirelessly promote anyone but herself. She disinterestedly promoted some if opportunity arose, such as Hemingway, and very much promoted some others among friends, such as Picasso ---mostly she listened, lectured, and advised literary young men, but she did not promote them tirelessly.] Her judgements etc etc..".
Ernest Hemingway describes how Alice was Gertrude's 'wife' in that Stein rarely addressed his wife, and he treated Alice the same, leaving the two "wives" to chat. Alice was four foot eleven inches tall, and Gertrude was five foot one inch (Grahn 1989).
This is the second time Alice has been mentioned, so why not move this passage up to join with the first?
Several years later, Alice would contribute money to Faÿ's escape from prison.
Why not use simple past tense: "Several years later, Alice contributed..."?
After the war, Gertrude's status in Paris grew when she was visited by many young American soldiers.
Taken literally, this says that Gertrude's post-war status in Paris (and by inference not elsewhere) rose after the war due to the visits from the young GIs. I don't think this is what you mean to say. If, as I suspect, you mean that her status in the US rose because of the GI visits, then it could be amended to something like: "Gertrude and Alice returned to Paris after the war, where her fame in the US was spread by a steady stream of young GIs calling at the Stein salon."
Ok that's it - just some suggestions. Let me know if this is out of line, ok?
Incidentally, on the Lost Generation, I recall reading how GS first heard this expression from the lips of a garage owner expressing exasperation with a feckless apprentice: "C'est un generation perdu!" GS gave it an entirely new dimension. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read this - I thought it was in Janet Flanner and just checked, but it's not...maybe it was Hemingway...?
Major part of the Stain's biography is merely a bunch of sensless sentences. e.g.: Extremely charming, eloquent, and cheerful, she had a large circle of friends and tirelessly promoted herself. Her judgments in literature and art were highly influential. In the summer of 1931, Stein advised the young composer and writer Paul Bowles to go to Tangier, where she and Alice had vacationed. - how do these three sentences connect to each other in one para? 67.142.130.25 02:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
A few more edits
The following italicized words seem like a breach of neutrality to me (Found under "Writings") :
Though Stein influenced authors such as Ernest Hemingway and Richard Wright, as hinted above, her work has often been misunderstood. Composer Constant Lambert (1936) naively compares Stravinsky's choice of, "the drabbest and least significant phrases," in L'Histoire du Soldat to Gertrude Stein's in "Helen Furr and Georgine Skeene" (1922), specifically: "Everday they were gay there, they were regularly gay there everyday," of which he contends that the, "effect would be equally appreciated by someone with no knowledge of English whatsoever," apparently entirely missing the pun frequently employed by Stein. Pilaman, 04 December
[edit] Lesbian
While Stein's sexuality is certainly important and worth mentioning, I don't think putting it in the list of descriptions "American writer, poet, feminist, playwright, lesbian" is apropriate. Hemingway isn't described as "American novelist, short story writer, journalist, and heterosexual." For that matter, Alan Ginsberg isn't described as "American beat poet and homosexual." As such, I'm removing it.24.19.157.12 06:44, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rearranging
Hey Gertrude fans!
I went ahead and made some changes to the Early Life section before realizing that might come across as a little bit presumptuous of me. My intention was to improve the flow of the first few paragraphs, which included some pretty drastic rewordings. Take a look and see what you think.
Jared Hawkley 04:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
