Talk:Gun politics in Finland

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This article contains a lot of information that needs to be checked. For example, it is claimed that there are 30 000 fully automatic weapons in private ownership, when it is illegal to own fully automatic weapons. Also, things like 'military style' weapons makes it look like the place has guys driving tanks around and carrying machine guns. Also, I dont see the point of comparing the country to USA. Not to mention that Texas is the only place where private ownership of anti-tank weapons is legal...--HJV 18:15, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

You are wrong, it is completely legal to own fullauto weapons in Finland, if you have licence to it:

"Lupa sarjatuliasetta, sinkoa, kranaatinheitintä, takaaladattavaa tykkiä tai rakenteeltaan ja käyttötarkoitukseltaan vastaavaa ampuma-asetta taikka ohjus- tai raketinheitinjärjestelmää taikka näiden aseiden osaa varten voidaan antaa vain, jos hakijan ilmoittama käyttötarkoitus on näytös, kuvaus tai muu vastaava esitys taikka museossa tai kokoelmassa pitäminen. Lupa edellä mainittuja ampuma-aseita tai niiden osia varten voidaan erityisestä syystä antaa myös työhön, jossa ase on välttämätön."

[1]

And if you in USA have class III licence you can own fullauto weapons and "destructive devices" in every state where that is legal, many more states than Texas.

Tentatively, I'm going to remove the NPOV warning. I think the primary points in flagging it were (1) legality of full auto in Finland, (2) why compare to the US. With regards to (1), several of our Finnish visitors have confirmed that automatic weapons can be owned. With regards to (2), Finland makes an interesting counterpoint to the US, if only because people find the Finnish rate of gun ownership surprising.

I believe that while the information is correct as itself, it fails to convey some anti-gun nuances present in Finnish gun legislation. For example, the Finnish text cited above notes that the license for military weapons (fully automatic firearms, antitank weapons, breach loaded cannons, mortars, missile or rocket launcher systems) can be given only for purposes of shows, recordings (i.e. movies) or for museum exhibitions. Also the tear gas and pepper spray guns are, in effect, strictly regulated. No private person can cite "personal protection" to get a license for any kind of gun. "Personal protection" applies only to security guards, who must have extra training to get a right to carry even a pepper spray, let alone a firearm. The other reasons: training and collection apply only to security training companies and registered gun collectors. It is not easy to become a licensed gun collector in Finland. Most of them are either professional soldiers or have a long record of responsible gun ownership.

The purpose of this page is, I think, to provide arguments for the pro-gun lobby in the U.S. The actual content of the page is less important. I'll make a few minor changes to remove the implied bias. --81.197.79.13 13:43, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Made several changes to correct verb and subject agreement, also removed informal words such as 'ammo' and replaced with more appropriate words eg 'ammunition', 'obtained' rather that 'get'.

I don't understand the title of this page. Why "politics"? I mean, it's not a discussion about groups with competing interests in gun registration v. no-gun-registration and licensing v. no licensing or just in general ease of gun ownership versus difficult in gun ownership. So ... I don't get where the "politics" comes into it. There's no correlation between changes in the gun laws and discussions of crime statistics in Finland, or even discussions of perceptions of crime in Finland. I have no idea about the validity of laws as presented, or why it would be useful to the gun lobby in the United States (except perhaps on the theory that crime must be lower in Finland). Of course, it also seems to me that the Finnish system clearly, whatever else it entails, entails gun *registration,* an anathema in the United States (for many, at least, and political suicide according to the received wisdom), whatever other liberality in gun ownership it may or may not provide for.Blondlieut 05:16, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Subject seems quite absurd, since there aren't really any "gun politics" in Finland. Gunlaws aren't political (there aren't any "gun liberalization front") but juridical/technical issue only, and few Finns pay attention to them at all. I think situatition is quite same in most of the European countries. Article should be moved to "gun laws in Finland" or something, or maybe deleted as irrelevant information about minor subject.--ML 09:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that the page is named this way to be consistent with the other pages on the subject. Of course if a more amenable alternative can be found that would be great. I don't see a problem with having a "Firearms in X" set of articles. - FrancisTyers · 09:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This article contains a surprisingly low number of errors. I'll try to sum them up:

- the Finnish firearms legislation has certain exemptions, e.g. it doesn't regulate government-owned firearms at all (when used by goverment employees), foreign security elements may have certain exemptions (during state visits etc.), ...

- any person, not just a family member, can have the "parallel license" to a firearm (e.g. your hunting buddy)

- please move the section "Firearms categories" above the section "Regulation"

- please define terms: use/carry (Finnish: käyttäminen), transport (Finnish: kuljettaminen), storage (Finnish: säilyttäminen)

• "carrying the gun" means using it for the licensed purpose, such as hunting
• you can only carry the gun when you have the opportunity to do so, like when you're in the woods
• "transporting the gun" means moving it from one place to another, like from your home to your hunting grounds
• while transporting, the gun must be unloaded, holstered/bagged and you must have a valid reason (i.e. you cannot continuously transport the gun around and claim you're on your way to a shooting range)
• "storing the gun" means keeping the gun e.g. at your home under the already mentioned terms (stored in a locked place etc.)

- the regulating body on gun collectorship is Ministry of Interior, which also regulates the licensing of select fire weapons etc. (Finnish: erityisen vaaralliset ampuma-aseet) instead of the local police authority

- the membership requirement of any kind of association, including "marksmanship association" (gun club), won't be enforced in Finnish legislation, following from the Finnish constitution

- the main part Finnish firearms legislation (Finnish: Ampuma-aselaki) was last changed October 2005 (Finnish goverment keeps refining all legislation little by little)

- "other type weapon" (Finnish: muu ampuma-ase) may be better described as "special firearm", "exceptional firearm" or some such (in fact, it's a catch-all category, which includes the firearms which don't fall into other, more traditional categories. An example would be a modern sporting rifle of bullpup design which is shorter than a traditional rifle)

- please decide on using the different terms, like weapon/firearm, license/certificate, automatic/select fire

- on the tear gas issue, it is not restricted to security professionals. Some other (possible) user groups include people working in somewhat dangerous conditions, like hospital staff, night shifts in certain areas, people being harrassed (by others having restraining orders in place)

- most of the unlicensed firearms in the worst estimates are not illegal per se; they are just lying around on somebodys attic since grandpa brought them from WW2 and later on passed away -> nobody even knows they exist. So I would prefer the term "unlicensed" to "illegal", as "illegal" implies deliberate crime

That's about all I can come up with... jthyttin

On this last point it should be noted that it is very easy for the inheritor to register these "illegal" guns when the original owner dies. 82.181.150.151 23:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)