Talk:Kaffir (ethnic slur)

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1 Merging
2 Coolie used?
3 Removed history of Jamaican Indian-African ethnic conflict
4 South Africa
5 RV

[edit] Merging

dont merge Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

I split the original Kaffir page into (1) explanation of the historical uses of the word, as synonym of "south African native", and (2) discussion of its current usage in South Africa as an ethnic slur. Part (1) went to a new article South Africa Kaffir people. Part (2) was merged into this page. My excuse is that it is the same word, used in the two coutries with basically the same disparaging and offensive purposes, only with relatively small differences of usage. Jorge Stolfi 02:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coolie used?

I've never heard of a so-called Black who called an Indian a "coolie." The article is a disingenuos pack of lies. 151.201.129.196 17:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

My friend from Trinidad says that Blacks refer to East Indians as "coolies" and they in turn refer to black as "niggers" (when they are not in a charitable mood, I suppose). There is a lot of racism between the 2 groups, although it seems to be quite arbitrary - there are many exceptions to the rule.

[edit] Removed history of Jamaican Indian-African ethnic conflict

I removed the following material from the page. Since this page is about the ethnic slur term, keeping the following information here would inevitably look like a highly subjective attempt to justify or apologize for the use of the word. Perhaps this can be moved to some other article, say on the History of Jamaica tree. Jorge Stolfi 02:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

In Jamaica, while "kaphar" and its many forms are used, there are not a result of racism (belief that a race is inferior to your own), but of prejudice (literally "judge before-hand", to stereo-type or generalize a group of people based on pre-conceived idea). The use of "kaphar" in Jamaica is exclusive to East Indians. Its primacy cause was the religious discrimination Hindus and Muslims received from Blacks, who were predominately Christian. Black Christians often openly called Indian "heathens" and "pagans". They also advocated banning Indians from migrating to Jamaica and sending all Indians already in Jamaica back to India. Faced with widespread discrimination, many Indians developed prejudices and saw all Blacks as anti-Indian. This led to Hindustanis (e.i. East Indians) beginning to refer to Blacks as "kaphars". The persistence of this word would be ensured due to legal discrimination against Indians (All Indians in Jamaica were recognized by the government as having the status of Indentured Immigrant until 1960) and governmental efforts to assimilate Indians into Jamaican society. In the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, it was not uncommon for Indian school children to be taunted by Blacks who irreverently referred to them as "coolies". During recent years racial discrimination in Jamaica has declined although by no means extinct.

Most Indians in Jamaica today are unaware of the origin of the word "kaphir", mainly because of the fact that most Indians only speak little or no Hindustani as a result of assimilation. Present day Indians use "kaphir" and Black as synonyms much like how Blacks use the words "coolie" and Indian interchangeably. Although "kaphir" is widely used, it rarely used when not speaking to another Indian. In this aspect it differs from "coolie" which Blacks use to openly refer to Indians even when addressing one.

[edit] South Africa

Corrected the errors in the article as it relates to South Africa:

The word kaffir is not only used by white people.
The word is used in a South African context to refer to black people. I am unaware of any widepread current or historical use of it to refer to Indian or so-called Coloured people in South Africa; more to the point, the Dictionary of South African English does not appear to be aware of any such use.
Whatever the scriptwriter of Gandhi may have written, the word kaffir does not appear in Gandhi's own account of the incident at Pietermaritzburg

Gandhi himself used the term quite frequently refering to Blacks Racism of the Early Mahatma Ghandi

It is not only black people who find the word highly offensive

Humansdorpie 13:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

It is mainly "white liberals" that do so. The Blacks just copied that.

I have no opinion myself (I have never read/heard the word before coming to Wikipedia); however, those claims have been in the article for quite a while. So excuse me for asking: have you lived in South Africa, or is your opinion based only on the sources you listed?
All the best, Jorge Stolfi 09:45, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Ola, Jorge, yes - I'm South African. Humansdorpie 10:44, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RV

I've reverted the two changes made earlier today.

That the word "is regarded as the most offensive word you could find" reflects opinion rather than demonstrable fact
Use of the word has been actionable in a South African court since at least 1976 (I believe the case was Ciliza -v- Minister of Police and Another 1976 (4) SA 243) although I think Joziboy is quite right to highlight that the number of successful cases seems to have increased dramatically in recent years

Humansdorpie 18:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Those lawsuits should be mentioned in the article. They seem to be far more illuminating than the examples given there. All the best, Jorge Stolfi 13:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

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Talk:Kaffir (ethnic slur)

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[edit] Merging

[edit] Coolie used?

[edit] Removed history of Jamaican Indian-African ethnic conflict

[edit] South Africa

[edit] RV

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