Talk:Koziołek Matołek
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An entry from Koziołek Matołek appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 10 September 2006. |
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I was wondering whether it wouldn't be appropriate to provide the readers with an "approximate translation" of "Matołek" too, as this is actually a meaningful name. The only proposition I could think of at the moment that would be even remotely close to the somewhat derisive but also sympathetic tone of the Polish original is "nitwit". What do you think? Bravada, talk - 01:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- I think that it's more of a given name. Note that Matołek gained a meaning and became a word after it was popularized by the story, not the other way around (IIRC).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 02:55, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Can you prove that? I believe "Matoł" was used in the current sense at least in the 19th century (I guess one would have to resort to e.g. Sienkiewicz for an example), and the dimnutive form is quite natural for Polish, so I see no reason why this would not have been understood that way before the story appeared and served as a self-explanatory description of the, well, protagonist... Bravada, talk - 05:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- I couldn't find a source for that, this claim comes from Polish wiki and as often, is unreferenced. One way or another, it is character's name, and those are usually not translatable ('Nitwit the Billy-Goat?' please... :>). Also I guess we may note that this would be the translation if used (and then of course we translate Winnie the Pooh into Kubuś Puchatek, or Mickey the Mouse into Myszka Miki, so I guess there are notable exceptions).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- The only reason why I ever mentioned that is there the article starts with "(Matołek the Billy-Goat)", which is a bit of an incomplete translation/explanation. If we are to include such in the article, even though there is no official one, it should be "complete" - I guess it might be said somewhere in the article what the character's name means, perhaps without making the "homemade" translation so prominent. Regards, Bravada, talk - 23:46, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- PS. Oh, I see what you meant about the Polish Wikipedia article now... Perhaps "pacan", but I am almost sure "matoł" is centuries old. The Słownik Języka Polskiego lists "matołectwo" as an antiquated medical term for what would be now cretinism.
- Good research, I will leave it up to you to do the changes you think will be most beneficial.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 00:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- I couldn't find a source for that, this claim comes from Polish wiki and as often, is unreferenced. One way or another, it is character's name, and those are usually not translatable ('Nitwit the Billy-Goat?' please... :>). Also I guess we may note that this would be the translation if used (and then of course we translate Winnie the Pooh into Kubuś Puchatek, or Mickey the Mouse into Myszka Miki, so I guess there are notable exceptions).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:09, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Can you prove that? I believe "Matoł" was used in the current sense at least in the 19th century (I guess one would have to resort to e.g. Sienkiewicz for an example), and the dimnutive form is quite natural for Polish, so I see no reason why this would not have been understood that way before the story appeared and served as a self-explanatory description of the, well, protagonist... Bravada, talk - 05:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
