Talk:Legion (demon)
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[edit] Additional Name
I don't have access to a bible at the moment, but I seem to remember that another English translation of the bible has the demon name itself "Mob" as in "And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Mob: because many devils were entered into him."
Can anyone confirm or deny this, because if it's true it should be added to the article Shinji nishizono 16:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- I believe that's from the Message paraphrase; the man says something along the lines of "Mob. I'm a rioting Mob." --3M163//Complete Geek 13:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Interpretation of the name
It seems likely to me that the phrase "My name is Legion, for we are many" simply means "we have many names because there are a lot of us" - rather than "Legion" being a proper noun denoting the name of the man or demon. Is there any indication that Legion is a proper noun in the bible? Shinji nishizono 16:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Additional
Legion is a demon, and can be found in the Bible in Mark 5:9 and Luke 8:30. (A parallel version of the story can be found in Matthew 8:28-34, but this version does not contain the name "Legion" and tells of two men, not just one, possessed by a multitude of demons.) The story is told that Jesus met a man possessed by evil. This demonic possession spoke to Jesus in a conversation. This quote comes from Luke 8:30:
And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. The demons that composed Legion were aware of the tremendous power of Jesus, and begged to be spared from being tossed back into the bottomless pit of hell. Jesus instead cast the demons out of the man and into a herd of pigs. The pigs then drowned themselves in the Sea of Galilee.
John Dominic Crossan believes the story may be considered a parable of anti-Roman resistance. This would explain why the Gospels variously situate the story in Gadara, Gerasa and Gergesa: All three are disguises for Caesarea, the location of the actual events behind the story (see "Jesus as a Leader of Nonviolent Resistance"). Even if the story is taken to be historically factual, some of the details may be exaggerated. For example, pigs are excellent swimmers, and the ones who jumped into the lake may well have survived. (Unless of course the demons made the pigs drown)
David Icke and Joseph Atwill in his book Caesar's Messiah, believ that the story is a representation of Titus Vespasianus, as the messiah, and the invading Roman Legions in dealing with the Zealots and their insurrection in Caesarea. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.36.114.164 (talk • contribs).
This is a very strange theory, since Vespasian (who, by the way, looked amazingly like Lyndon Johnson) was the commander of the Legions, not their adversary. Also, when you say "his" book, do you mean Icke or Atwill? This matter needs a lot of calrification to say the least. Das Baz 17:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Josephus' Jewish Wars 6.5.4: "But now, what did the most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how," about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth." The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination. Now this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea. However, it is not possible for men to avoid fate, although they see it beforehand. But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction."
"What more than all else incited them [the Jews] to the [1st Roman] war was an ambiguous oracle ... found in their sacred scriptures, to the effect that at that time one from their country would become ruler of the world. This they understood to mean someone of their own race, and many of their wise men went astray in their interpretation of it. The oracle, however, in reality signified the sovereignty of Vespasian who was proclaimed Emperor on Jewish soil" - Crossan, Who Killed Jesus?, p44, ISBN:0-06-061479-X
[1]: "Many scholars see another historical allusion in Mk 5:8-13 to a 'Legion' which had a pig as its emblem and which Josephus tells us remained in Jerusalem in the war's aftermath (Wars of the Jews 7.1.3). William Harwood writes in Mythology's Last Gods: "Since the fall of the city a few months earlier [in 70 C.E.], Jerusalem had been occupied by the Roman Tenth Legion [X Fretensis], whose emblem was a pig. Mark's reference to about two thousand pigs, the size of the occupying Legion, combined with his blatant designation of the evil beings as Legion, left no doubt in Jewish minds that the pigs in the fable represented the army of occupation. Mark's fable in effect promised that the messiah, when he returned, would drive the Romans into the sea as he had earlier driven their four-legged surrogates.""
[edit] Merge
Gadarenes should be Merged to Legion (demon). The Gadarenes in the gospel aren't notable outside of the story, and the subject of the modern day region is addressed in the article for Gadara. Thence, since the Gadarenes article has no purpose outside of the story of Legion, the information should be merged the (essentially same) information on the Legion page. Reasons for the direction of merge: a) Legion has about 5 times as many articles linking to it, b) it has 2 foreign Wiki articles whereas Gadarenes has none, c) it addresses the parallel story whereas the Gadarenes page doesn't, d) it has more information, references, etc. on it. Also, the Gadarenes aren't the focus of the story, Legion is. 24.126.199.129 09:54, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
One problem is that various gospels - and manuscripts thereof - have Gergesa and Gerasa instead of Gadara. The location of the story in Gadara is very far from one hundred percent certain. Das Baz 17:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second.
I say that "[t]he demons that composed Legion were aware of the tremendous power of Jesus" is WP:Weasel and possibly WP:NPOV. I really think it can be worded much more clearly, without the implicit support of Christianity. The characterization in this article should be no different from what would be written about a comic book character (for example). If I don't hear back on this one, I'm going to go ahead and change it to something a bit more encyclopedic. Alwarren@ucsd.edu 05:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
- Well, to be fair, I have heard almost that exact phrase used in describing Legion's reaction to the C-man's mere presence. EVula // talk // ☯ // 06:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
With the popular culture refs I would have to suggest that the Red Dwarf episode 'Legion' (Se6 Ep 2) is worthy of note, especially considering some of the phrases used by the 'gesalt entity' I dont have a copy of the episode to hand but I belive such a reference is much more notable than some others listed. Perhaps someone with access to the EP could look into this and add the appropriate information? 213.249.239.40 04:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)Trask
