Talk:List of X-Men teams

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Removed some "The"s from character names. Some characters might be referenced that way: "Look! There's The Beast!" However, that isn't their character name. One wouldn't say: "The Beast, please come here." One would say: "Beast, please come here."
See: Talk:List of Marvel Comics characters
UtherSRG 20:22, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Contents 1 Imposters 2 Handbook Marvel Teams 3 Xorn 4 Issue numbers 5 Footnotes 6 Clarity/Entry Heading 7 New Heading 8 Hellions? 9 Dates? 10 Powers 11 Levels 12 Structure, Students and such 13 Missing Villains 14 Membership 15 Mirage 16 X-Terminators 17 Disambiguation Page 18 Name edits 19 Discuss list consolidation

[edit] Imposters

If you're going to include Warskrulls or Phalanx as "members" - even though these characters only posed as members of the team for one or two issues - you might as well include every character who's ever possessed or impersonated an active member of the team. -Sean Curtin 02:13, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

I'd include everyone that was an original creation for the comic --Jamdav86

[edit] Handbook Marvel Teams

In the new Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Teams 2005's X-Men Entry it includes the splinter cells members as X-Men Members:

Muir Island X-Men from Uncanny X-Men #254-255, New Mutants Graduates X-Men from Uncanny X-Men Annual #15, Interin X-Men from Uncanny X-Men #392-393, New X-Men Street Team from New X-Men #149-150

I was wondering what we should do with the splinter cells here. Should we add the entrys from it to the list or... I have a idea because if we add more splinter cells it might look cluttered: We take out the splinter cells from main list of X-Men. Put Forge, Northstar and the rest who joined the X-Men, after being part of a Splinter Cell, back into the list when they joined the Main X-Men. And than Under the Main X-Men list but above the other X-Men Teams put each group in there own group giving all those who had been a member of that splinter cell? Does that sound good? -Jas0n22193

IMHO the splinter groups should be listed, but kept separately. If that means that Northstar and Cannonball get listed twice, so be it. -Sean Curtin 05:24, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Sean on this. Plus, that Handbook listing's kicked up such a firestorm elsewhere with its... lax... definition that the guys who put it together publically regretted not seperating the two out. - SoM 18:58, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Xorn

I have a question about Xorn. In X-Men #162 Shen Xorn says about the Xorn storyline that Magneto wasn't Xorn but someone else. Someone still in the X-Men's Midsts. And He didn't know who the individual was.

I thought by Magneto revealing he was Xorn took out Kuan-Yin Xorn as being the Xorn who joined the X-Men. And than Shen Xorn revealing Xorn wasn't Magneto made it someone Unknown still. But in Xorn's entry here on wikipedia states: "Later issues of X-Men have stated that Xorn was an actual person who was under the influence of the entity known as Sublime." Can anyone explain where that came from? I must have missed something somewhere. -Jas0n22193

This is the sort of thing that happens without a clear plan, when you get two writers to retcon bits of a third story, then expect everyone to fit it together. In a nutshell, Xorn I was Kuan-Yin Xorn, and he joined the X-Men in his right mind. According to Austen's story (the one you mentioned), he was possessed, which caused him to go nuts, impersonate Magneto, etc. Now, in Morrison's story (the one being retconned), "Magneto" had been taking Kick, a power-enhancing drug which was actually a sentient... thing... called Sublime that influenced, and in some cases took over the hosts. Whoever wrote that bit of the Xorn entry just put two and two together. Meanwhile, over in the third story, Claremont's been saying that Magneto's not only alive, but he's not such a bad chap really, to back up the other retcon. - SoM 22:57, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ahhh Thanks! --Jas0n22193 08:24, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Issue numbers

Hey I had a idea and was wondering what the rest of you thought, to include issues of when the members of the other X-teams joined. Maybe not with all of them, like with the villian teams (with all those Brotherhood teams and all those Acolytes), that might be a little much. Im just throwing that idea out. But also adding to much information on other teams could distract from the main point of this article, being as this is the List of X-Men. So either way I think the list is still great. --Jas0n22193 06:27, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that they all ought to have issue numbers for when the character first joined or was first active in each group. Annotations like that are one of the biggest advantage that lists have over categories. -Sean Curtin 00:15, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

Good idea

[edit] Footnotes

Hey I just had a idea for this page. Footnotes. The 2 main reasons why i think this list deserves it is: 1. This list is growing very well, but there are some places that need additional information that would look odd in the list itself. 2. Marvel is extremely confusing, and additional notes in certain places could be added to clarify any uncertainty. It would be so easy, and so much more helpful, to simply put a number beside the places that need additional notes that would be a link to the corresponding number in a list of notes at the bottom of the page.

Some of the places that I think would need a footnote would be: 1. Original X-Men: Explaing that Marvel did two origin storys for them 2. First Flight: though they are not on the list, they possibly could be added to it. But where a note would be needed is stating how in Marvel Handbook Wolverine there stated as former members but in Marvel Handbook Teams there not stated. And stating how they are the team that would be Alpha Flight but (if im not mistaken) was not yet called Alpha Flight during there first mission 3. On some members like Xorn II and Sabretooth who were mentioned in Marvel Handbook team who have very questionable X-Men status, let's mention the questionablity. 4. Mention how some splinter teams never were called X-Men but Marvel created there names later on. 5. Mention how Marvel created the names for some of the New X-Men Street Team members later for the Handbook And seriously there could be even more. Just throwing that idea out.

Seperate thought, with Alpha Flight, should we add First Flight and the Alpha Flight from the past now in the present? --Jas0n22193 04:13, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clarity/Entry Heading

This is a useful resource for seeing which characters were in which teams. Therefore, the heading should be changed to reflect this.

Hoewever, with this heading, you coud create a bare, alphabetical list of every X-Person (including real identities, changed codenames etc.), possibly as a sub-category of the main Marvel character list. --Jamdav86 09:35, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Good Point. --Jas0n22193 21:20, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

I have a idea with the Heading: Could we change the name of this article to List of X-Men Teams than set up the X-Men members somewhat like the X-Men: Splinter Cells. So it would be title, than table of contents, than X-Men category. So it would move "The X-Men is a team of comic book mutant superheroes, as published by Marvel Comics. An asterisk (*) will denote a current member of the team" down below the table of contents.

Under the table of contents would be X-Men with 2 =, than the description, than Original X-Men with 3 =. How does that sound? And what about changing Original X-Men, All-New All-Different X-Men to 1960s and 1970s? To make it go well with the rest? And we could under 1960s and 1970s say Original X-Men and All-New All-Different X-Men in the description. What does everyone else think? --Jas0n22193 02:14, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

I vaguely get you with this. I thought that heading up but never posted it, so definitely change to that. The only thing I couldn't understand was Under the table of contents would be X-Men with 2 =, than the description, than Original X-Men with 3 =., so could you please clarify this or, beter still, post an example of what you're proposing here in talk to look at and review.

It worries me that we're the only 2 people discussing this, Jas0n22193, as, if these proposals are put into action, they are pretty major and will effect layout and even links to this page. Someone should spread the word ----Jamdav86 16:20, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think the tables are too long. There should probably be a split at each table sub-section, eg. 1990s recruits, 2000s recruits, etc. Also the paragraph under Xavier Institute Students needs to be clearer, either explaining in more depth or linking to articles on the events mentioned. Journeyman 05:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Heading

Could someone change the heading to 'List of X-Men Teams' please? --Jamdav86 5 July 2005 17:02 (UTC)

Done. Journeyman 05:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hellions?

Shouldn't the original and King Bedlam Hellions be under "Enemies"?

[edit] Dates?

What gives with the dates and issues? It lists the original team as starting in (e.g.) "Cyclops, X-men #42, 1967"; "Iceman, X-Men #46, 1968." As far as I know, they all began in X-Men #1. Is this the issue that tells the recollection story of them joining? If so, it should be clarified, because it's very confusing. It makes it look like Mimic has been an X-Man longer than Cyclops. Carlo 14:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

From what I can tell, they are when the originals graduated from students of Xavier to becoming full-fledged X-Men. Also I was wondering where I saw those dates and they come from the OHOTMU: X-Men. Originalsinner 03:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

It can't be the issues where an original graduated to X-man: Jean's is listed as X-men #1 and I doubt the original five all graduated in different issues. I think the issues in question are flashback issues, but there should be some way to note that these issues take place before X-men #1, their first actual appearance as an X-man.

Jean does actually join in X-men #1. The others are already part of the team when she joins. Carlo 13:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Technically speaking, the issue numbers listing the issue in which each of the founders joined is correct. Some of the 60's issues of the series contained back-up stories that depicted how Xavier recruited each of them (Those issues have been recently reprinted in Essential Classic X-Men Vol. 2.). I do agree that there should be some clarification, maybe "X-Men #XX (2nd story)" or "X-Men #XX (back-up story)?" Mac417 20:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Powers

Shouldn't someone put in the xmen's powers? That would make sense

I'm not too sure, mainly because the consensus won't probably say "that's what their individual entries are for". Originalsinner 22:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Leave the ones that are there. Anyone can click the individual entries if they are curious. -Eric

But some articles haven't been made, so maybe a powers section wud be handy.

[edit] Levels

Is there any actual backup for the levels that have been edited in? I know that X-men Forever stated that Jean and Iceman are Omega's, but the rest? I've edited so that all the non-mutants are at least listed as such, but some of the classifications seem rather arbitrary. Dizzy D 10:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure why they're in there. Possibly because of the Omega-Level Mutants page being guarded by a few admins. Most I think is speculation though. Originalsinner 04:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this should be taken out...seems very arbitrary and quite pointless.

OK then, final chance for anybody wanting to keep the levels in to state their case. Otherwise I'll edit them out in the near future (say a week or so). Dizzy D 16:38, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I think most of the levels are speculatory anyways so go for gold. Originalsinner 22:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Structure, Students and such

Hey, I've got a question....what the crap is going on with the structure? Some are in tables, some are in lists, some are in bulleted lists...there needs to be some unity (at least for the last two).

Secondly, I think the section on the students needs to be edited. Why make a division of the table just to say that Rogue, Iceman, and Beast were assigned students but their names and powers were never determined? I think that's ridiculous! Why not just have a note at the beginning of the whole section that explains "With the influx of mutant students, most X-Men were recruited as teachers and were assigned a squad of six students. Although every active memeber suppossedly were assigned students, some groups were either never seen, named, or given explainations of their powers." That would save a whole lot of room.

Lastly, I know that the notes section in the tables are supposed to contain relatively small amounts of information, but does it have to be so choppy? I mean "Most likely depowered. May be dead. Bisexual. Moved to single room. etc" does not make for a good read. I would even go so far as to say that irrelevant information like living status should be eliminated all together and contained to the individual pages for each character.

I've said my piece, so peace.

There is some potential to merge the Xavier Institute section with the Xavier Institute student body article. Journeyman 05:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Villains

One of the first things I noticed was... where's Omega Red in all this? After noticing that, it's got me to thinking as to who else might not be there. Is there any more then?

[edit] Membership

Where is it said that Karima Shapander and Aurora will join the team in X-Men 188? Besides, #188 has been released and these characters have not joined the team. Chambervii

[edit] Mirage

In point of fact, she was active as an X-Man in more than one mission. She appears on a mission in X-Men: Black Sun scouting the home of Dr. Strange in Greenwich Village for occult activity for Jean.

[edit] X-Terminators

I'm not really clear on what this is, but it has omething to do with X-Factor. The article there is kind of vague on the subject. --Chris Griswold 11:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The X-terminators was the name the first X-Factor used when openly acting as mutants, while as X-Factor, they still posed as mutant-hunters. Later the young mutants X-Factor trained, took the name the X-terminators. Dizzy D 16:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks; I was wondering because it's not on the list. --Chris Griswold 22:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Oversight I guess. Same for the Fallen Angels, who should also be on this list. The X-terminators (2) are mentioned in the Xavier Institute student body‎ article. Dizzy D 00:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation Page

I have a suggestion for a Disambiguation page. Having these 4 links:

1. X-Men.

2. Xavier Institute Students (Only problem the list going here is very similar to the Xavier Institute student body. Only real difference is that one doesnt seem to have when students joined and have past students. Not really sure about what is going on with that page but would there be any way we could suggest with Xavier Institute student body page adding issues they joined and just getting rid of the list of students going on this page (the x-men teams page). Than could we just list the Xavier Institute student body in the Disambiguation page.

3. Other X-Teams

4. Villain Teams

What do people think? --Jas0n22193 00:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC) -

All the X-books are so closely tied together that this wont work. I think that this page shows all the information completely and well enough that we shouldn't do anything, unless it is to add info.Phoenix741 01:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name edits

Just for general users and specifically for the two waging a revert war the following have been changed:

• "James Howlett" to "Logan / James Howlett" -- "Logan" is the name, not a nickname, that the character used as his own until recently. At worst it should be listed as a codename. At best it shouldn't be listed at all since it is an alias. This is most likely the best solution though since the character is an exceptional case.
• "Erik Lehnsherr" to "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr" -- The character's full name. Separating out "Magnus" is redundant since the books have placed it as the characters middle name.
• "Forge | Real Name Unknown" to "Forge | Unrevealed" -- This is shorter, more correct, and consistent with other listings. That is unless someone is going to argue that it was shown in the books that Forge's birth name was indeed "Real Name Unknown", which would also be the only reason to capitalize all three words. (Same for Sunder)
• "Sarah Rushman" to "Sarah" -- Since the full name was an alias it shouldn't be listed unless the sources indicate the character fully adopted the name.
• "Nathan Summers" to "Nathan Christopher Summers" -- Full name as used in the source material.
• "Xorn (Kuan-Yin)" to "Xorn" -- Redundant since the name indicating which Xorn is immediately next thing in the listing.
• "Xorn (Shen)" to "Xorn" -- Same reason.

Observations:

• Nicknames in general -- Generally we should be going the the full name used in the books. If the nickname is the only name used, so be it. (example: If Iceman's given name had never been used the listing for the character would be Bobby Drake.) If the full name has been used, list that and only that. Nicknames are better left to the main articles for the characters, keep the list field simple and succinct.
• "formerly <whomever>" -- Same reasoning here. KISS. The maiden and other former names have room and a place in the main articles, not here.
• "surname unrevealed" -- Down right redundant and inappropriate. If the source material has only given one name, first, last, or undetermined, that is what should be in the listing. If a full name is later given in a reliable source, fine, we can add it then.

- J Greb 00:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with everything that you said except for the part with Xorn (Kuan-Yin), and Xorn (Shen). Arnt Shen and Kuan-Yin part of the full name?Phoenix741 01:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Then the names need to be moved from "Real name" to "Character" with N/A under "Real name"... mater of fact, I can change that after reverting the WP:OWN vandalism. — J Greb 01:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

okPhoenix741 03:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

While I'm not out and out disagreeing with the way the Xorn brothers have been handled (Frankly it's a confusing situation, having both their code names be the same as their last names, and to have all 4 of said names be the same name.) I'm wondering why, if the answer has been decided to place their full names in the "character name" section, and n/a in the real name section, that the same solution doesn't hold true for Cecilia Reyes (who has her real name appear in both) and Longshot (who as far as we know has no real name)? Theoretically, it's the real name that is available, and the codename that isn't... so I'm thinking at least some of these names, and I'm none too sure which, are being handled incorrectly.

One other of your observations I'd like to point out a flaw with is the matter of Magneto's real name. It was revealed at some point in the past (I forget exactly when, or what issue of what book) that the only part of his "real" name we truely know is Magnus, and that Erik Lehnsherr was a false alias he created for whatever reason (again, I forget) at some point in the past. Like "Deadpool" with "Wade Wilson" it's usage has become so common that it's often regarded as his real name, but strictly speaking, it's not, Magnus is. He's often listed as Erik "Magnus" Lehnsherr (similar to James "Logan" Howlett), which is sometimes incorrectly written as Erik Magnus Lehnsherr, with no quote marks, and gives the impression that Magnus is his middle name, but in truth, it's not. It's just the only part of his actual name that we know. (Be it actually his, 1st, middle, or last name.) (Not to mention the X-Men movie treating it as his real name didn't help things.) So, theoretically, seperating out Magnus was the correct thing to do. As I already mentioned, it's kinda like the just "Logan" or "James Howlett" thing, only in reverse, with the single name being the real one, and the full name being the false one he frequently went by. It's a weird issue, but that's the ins and outs of it. I dunno... *Shrug* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.201.225.126 (talk) 06:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

I'll try to hit the points you've brought up:

1. Once the automatic edit war is halted (which it may be), the list is going to need to be brought into a consistent format, top to bottom. One of these things is the characters that are associated with a team without a codename being put into the "<Name> | N/A" format. This is going to cause some problems for at least 1 entry I think... Candy Southern (Article uses the nickname).
2. Magneto is a royal mess from the stand point of the character's name. To the best of my knowledge, it was introduced with only the name "Magneto" and stayed that way for a long time. Both "Magnus" and "Lehnsherr" were added later, and originally treated as aliases. That changed over time, but it was still inconsistent from writer to writer. Again, IIRC, it came to a point, without the film, where the character's full name was referred to as "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr" in Marvels publications. Again, it varied from writer to writer. All of that is material better dealt with in the Magneto article, not in this list. Keeping it simple would be to leave the 3 part name, without quotes.
3. Wolverine is a bit simpler. The character, for the majority of its existence in print has hat "Logan" for the "real" name. It wasn't until Origin that we got "James Howlett". It's tempting to just go with "birth name", but the character has rarely responded to anything but "Logan" in the mainstream continuity.
   Though, as I said before, Wolverine is an exceptional circumstance, so I think both names warrant inclusion. As for ordering... I'll always argue publication order before "in-universe, continuity order". The list is not supposed to be written as though it were in the Xavier Institute database.

Hope that covers it... - J Greb 08:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Shen Xorn and Kuan-Yin Xorn are the real names of the Xorn characters. Im confused why their names are listed as N/A if we know their real names. Can someone change that?

Diablito92 19:06, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

It's a situation that needs a two part fix. First, as pointed out above, a level of consistency needs to be reached. The list looks stable enough for that to be done. Second, the lead portion needs to be properly fleshed out. Part of that is going to be including an overview of how the list is structured. It looks like it may be necessary to spell out that "Character" will be where character names are listed for characters that don't have codenames. — J Greb 07:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discuss list consolidation

As much as this may be a can of worms...

Right now we have to list that are effectively doing the same job: "teams" and "characters". What I'm suggesting we do is fold the additional information from the newer list ("characters") into the older one ("teams"). This would also put the article in the need of a name change, from "... teams" to either "... team members" or "... teams and members".

If this does result in a drastic size increase to this list, then some of the team lists would need to be split off. But that is a debate for after the issue of the redundant lists is resolved. - J Greb 07:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)