Talk:Male prostitution

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Contents 1 Sexual orientation of male clients 2 Lacking sources 3 This page should be split 4 Name 5 Big revision 6 Areas for improvement 7 Merge proposal. 8 Active / Passive vs. Insertive / Receptive 9 Minor problem... 10 Another minor problem 11 Lack of Sourced Material 12 Lack of Mention of Heterosexual Male Prostitutes 13 Wrong Definition

[edit] Sexual orientation of male clients

I removed the addition "even though they like gay sex" - I don't see why the receiver of oral sex from a male prostitute (especially if the hustler is a crossdresser) should be treated as " liking gay sex" per se. --NYArtsnWords 03:20, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Um, because it's sex with someone of the same gender? Foolish Mortal 15:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Maybe they just wanted a blow job and just consider it sex, instead of gay sex or straight sex JayKeaton 05:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

So why didn't they want a blowjob from a girl? Like Hugh grant would ever have been arrested getting sucked off by a guy. horseboy 17:43, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lacking sources

This social disdain for age/status disparity is less pronounced in European, North African and Eastern cultures which have a long-standing tradition of non-aged-matched amorous relationships (although the American aged-matched couple is increasingly the rule in Europe).

Are there sources for this statement, if not I think it should be heavily re-worded or removed, seems very Ameri-centric wording. I don't recognise a tradition of accepting age disparity in Europe any more than elsewhere. --Brideshead 22:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

"Most, but not all, male escorts in the U.S. do not have unprotected anal sex with clients. Those that do are particularly likely to be HIV positive."

Absent a source I'm taking this out of the article. Otto4711 19:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I should think that for he 3rd staement you could find any site with info on HIV and use that (as a source). Dappled Sage 02:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This page should be split

It seems to me that much of the information on this page relates to male prostitutes with male clients. It would be more helpful if the information relating to male prostitutes with female clients were separated (given that the issues are somewhat different). - Anonymous 20:21 1 May 2006 (AEST)

I don't see any need for a split. If there are some issues that are unique for male hustlers with female clients (and remember that some hustlers have both male and female clients) and that have not been sufficiently dealt with, then they might be included in a separate section. --NYArtsnWords 11:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Imho this article conveys the image that most of male-prostitution is male-on-male, and that male-on-female is very rare. I don't know if that is true, but it would help to get some WP:RS for that.....-- ExpImp^talkcon 18:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Seeing how "prostitute" redirects to prostitution, perhaps a more ideal title would be Male prostitution. - GilliamJF 14:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Fireplace 17:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Gigolo is defined as a man that is supported by a woman to be her partner or lover. The term gigolo is specific to men servicing women. Male prostitute is more general, it could entail female or male client. The page should be split because this is factualy incorrect in reference to the defenition of the word gigolo.

[edit] Big revision

I've made major changes to the article, with more planned. I haven't significantly removed content, just added and reorganized it.

• Restructured the article to be more in line with the article on prostitution. This has the advantages of consistency and of bringing better organization onto a previously messy article.
• Removed claim that "rentboy" is a UK-specific word. It is common in the US too.
• Added information throughout.
• added external links to three of the most popular male escort sites: rentboy.com, men4rentnow.com, and male4maleescorts.com (the last being a review website). I have no affiliation with any of these sites, and include them only because they seem to be the most professional and frequently used sites in the US.
• Removed LGBT-related films category. Male prostitution is not a film.
• Removed rentboy under See Also. The rentboy article is very brief, adds little new information, and anyways is already referenced in this article. In fact, shouldn't rentboy redirect here? Fireplace 17:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Areas for improvement

• The article is still very gay-centric.
• The article is still very U.S.-centric.
• There needs to be a section on the legal issues of male prostitution. The main prostitution article has some good information, but there are some distinct issues for men that deserve mention here (e.g., the legal status of same-sex male prostitution is different in some countries, as are the relevenant age limits). Also, this article should be generally self-contained.
• I'm skeptical about the legitimacy of and need for the "People who have engaged in male prostitution" section. The section seems very gossipy, and is completely without citation. I propose deleting it.
• I think too much of the article is devoted to listing occurances of hustling in the arts/media. I suggest we separate out the lists into separate article(s) and instead have one shorter "Male prostitution in the arts and media" section that mentions the most well-known/influential ones (My Own Private Idaho, e.g.) and references the list article(s). This would help refocus the article on the more substantive issues and shorten it's length. Fireplace 17:56, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Not to mention that kind of disturbing section on "price"--198.82.92.132 04:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

No one objected to the removal of the "People who have engaged in male prostitution" section on the above grounds, so I've removed it. I'm all for reinstating a similar section (or a sub-article) with reference citations. Fireplace 17:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what has happened here. There was - maybe there still is - a section on the range of people who turn up as rent boys. Personally, I dont just go looking for "crude sex" in the sex clubs of Amsterdam. I like to talk to the guys. Indeed, as I say in an entry in the talk page of the main Prostitution entry - I have a kind of an ambition to establish Geisha-guy palaces. So it has been very nice to meet lawyers, IT experts, experts in quality of environment ... So it was nice to see this variety acknowledged. Might also help people to feel comfortable in their quest. The info on range of prices was also interesting. One more comment: a colleague of mine did a survey of rent boys: why were they there? Yes. Money was important. But a very common reason was that they were looking for love. Now then, all this makes nonsense of the common image of prostitutes. So, if Fireplace has "summarised" or deleted all this stuff, I hope he (or she) will put it back. Quester67 11:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The section on the range of people involved in hustling and their reasons is still there. The price section was just removed (it can be seen in the Revision as of 17:54, 29 October 2006) on the grounds of WP:NOR. I imagine parts of the section might be brought back, if backed up by citations (which, btw, the article could use throughout). With more serious references, some historical scholarship and so forth, eventually this article can get even better (and less US-centric).--NYArtsnWords 00:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal.

Shouldn't the person who proposed the merge start the discussion? Anyway...

Agreed. - BalthCat 00:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Active / Passive vs. Insertive / Receptive

Active and passive are not accurate descriptions for sexual positions. They are not the distinctions used by social workers or health care workers who regularly treat clients for STDs where discussion of sexual history is integral. This distinction probably applies to all descriptions of sex acts, but in an article on male prostitution the possibility of an inactive insertive partner seems particularly key. (unsigned comment by User:Jb05 - PL July 17 2006)

Active and passive are the terms everyone uses. I don't know anyone who says "I'm receptive" and means they are passive. If you go on gaydar, you won't find anyone going "I'm insertive". horseboy 17:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure that's true, but it's inappropriate for an encyclopedia article to adapt to the language used among a specific group on a specific dating site. Moreover, gaydar is a British site and, thus, represents the language used among British men identifying as gay. 'Top' and 'bottom' would be more representative of how men who identify as gay in America discuss their sexual preference, but an encyclopedia article should be accurate and not bias towards one particular group's language. As I explained before, you can have, for example, a receptive partner in anal intercourse who is both active and on top so niether of those distinctions are accurate or appropriate for an encyclopedia article. People like HIV counselors and health providers do use these terms in their professional interactions and they have considerable currency as their use is clear for those uninitiated into the lingo of various groups of gay males, unlike 'active' and 'passive'. User:Jb05 - PL

I have no experience of social workers/healthcare professionals using anything other than the terms active/passive. A clear distinction understood by everyone. --Brideshead 12:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor problem...

The term for male prostitutes in German is der Callboy, and in the plural it's die Callboys. All German nouns are capitalized. Otherwise, I'd agree that callboys would be the preferable way of writing it here. --Dwspig2 21:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

"Callboy" could also be a term in English, coming from the term "callgirl" in which case the average English editor will remove the capitalisation, assuming it is a mistake. I am changing it to "die Callboys" in the hopes that will fix the confusion. - BalthCat 04:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another minor problem

I deleted the Thai word "kathoey," for the simple reason that it does not refer to prostitutes. I live in Thailand, and speak Thai pretty well. "Kathoey" translates fairly well as "drag queen," although the term "lady-boy" is even more accurate. I have had these lady-boys in my university classes, just as I have had their opposites, the "Toms" -- girls who act like boys. If you tell someone that another person is a "kathoey," you are unmistakably saying that the other person is an effeminate, homosexual male. You are NOT saying that the other person is a prostitute. The fact that some kathoeys work as prostitutes does not make the term synonymous with "prostitute;" after all, a lot of young construction workers also work as prostitutes, which hardly makes "construction worker" a synonym for "prostitute." If you want a Thai term for "male prostitute," a much more exact term would be "dek khaay tua" == "boy who sells his body." Cf. the Damnern-Sathienpong Thai-English dictionary, third edition: "kathoey: hermaphrodite; transvestite; androgynous, transgender; gay, ladyboy."

[edit] Lack of Sourced Material

Admittedly, I don't know anything about Male prostitution. But this article is comprised mainly of speculation, i.e. Male prostitutes may do this and Male prostitutes may do that.

Without a source, they just as easily might not.Bantosh 18:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

A hustler may be homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual. This is a fantastic observation. Verdun1916 21:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of Mention of Heterosexual Male Prostitutes

This article has a distinct lack of mention of male prostitutes and acts with females. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.30.219.118 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Wrong Definition

Gigolo is defined as a man that is supported by a woman to be her partner or lover. The term gigolo is specific to men servicing women. Male prostitute is more general, it could entail female or male client. The page should be split because this is factualy incorrect in reference to the defenition of the word gigolo. riperrymanRiperryman 21:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

It looks like this distinction is already made in the article. Fireplace 21:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you are right it is. However when one types gigolo in the search engine "Male prostitute" is the only thing that appears. Gigolo should be a separate entry and not a footnote at the bottom of the "Male Prostitute" page. This can be easily overlooked it may confused people into thinking that the definitions are the same. Riperryman 23:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)