User talk:Malcolmlow
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[edit] Tree of Jesse
Hi Malcolm! Great work on the Jesse tree! You seem to be passionate about your subjject! I have a few pics that I can upload and, when I am in the UK in a month or so, I will try to photograph some specifically. There is, however, a little problem of what Wikipedia allows and what they don't. What they don't allow is "original research" or "point of view". If you don't back up everything you say, some nasty person comes along, ruthlessly cuts your edit and writes POV! in the explanation box. They particularly do this if they don't like what you say, even if you have a list of a dozen text books as references at the bottom of the page!
The bottom line is this:-
- we cannot say that Malcolm Low has done all this investigation and found over three hundred examples. Why? Because Malcolm Low is a Wiki editor and therefore cannot quote himself as a source.
- neither can we put up a theological discussion as to whether Jesus is root or shoot, and the appropriateness of this terminology, because right now it reads like an essay.
What we can do, and I am about to do is:-
- write Malcolm Low out of the page but retain all his valuable information. Sorry Mate! This is where Boffins congregate, and you get little credit for being one unless you have friends who give you Barnstars.
- I'm planning on having a go at all that interesting stuff about the roots. I think that it is partly in the translation. Or in the horticulture.... an old tree stump can revive itself in two ways, it can shoot from the trunk or the roots. Either way, the new growth is stemming from the old stump.
- What I will do in the immediate future is simply hide that paragraph in thhe text without deleting it. This is a very good way of maintaining info, or even leaving messages for future editors like "Could you please clarify this statement" or "Delete this quotation and I'll rip yer arms orf!" (No! No! I would never say that!)
Hidden text is done thus
leftarrow exclamation dashdashdash (the material to be hidden) dashdashdash rightarrow. Then, if you go to "edit" you can see it all.
so try editing this
Oh, yeah, something that I forgot to mention, and which some pedantic and selectively ignorant editors will fight you over, is this:-
Pictures are visual documents and therefore constitute reference material. Finite objects can also be used as references. So if write "The Sydney Harbour Bridge spans Port Jackson", I don't need to refernce it. But if I say "The Sydney Harbour Bridge is the largest single span bridge in the world", I need to define and source my statement.
The problem with using pictorial references is that that people who don't know your subject, and who are not familiar with disciplines where visual refernce is commonly used, will argue that what you have said is "original research", even if it is common knowledge to everyone in your field of expertise.
So they want cited sources for a factual statement like "Pisa Cathedral is built in the Romanesque style". To any art historian, the picture of Pisa Cathedral is the document that states beyond any question that the cathedral is Romanesque.
Basically, you don't have to cite a source for every church that you claim has a Jesse Tree window. You may not have a picture, but the building itself has the evidence for anyone who cares to look.
If, on the other hand, you state something questionable or from someone else's research, you need to quote eg:- "A close examination by Mandy Maddison of the west window at Winchester has revealed that many of the medieval fragments contain similar bands of foliage. Maddison speculates that, prior to its destruction, the window contained a Jesse Tree".
Don't quote the above, whatever you do... it is definitely questionable.... ;)
--Amandajm 03:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi Amandajm Thank you for pointing out the finer points of the information I have quoted. I am very happy for you to amend the material as you feel fit, you obviously have a better understanding of the Wikepidia procedure that I have. If in your opinion the Tree of Jesse page can be improved in any way please go ahead. My problem with the picture of the Jesse Hove is that I do not understand what is required, I have written permission from the originator of the photograph Mrs Annette Millar to re-produce the photograph as seen in the article. I do not wish to lose this from the article and neither does Mrs Millar. Malcolmlow 20:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi Amandajm, I have looked at the Tree of Jesse page and see that alterations have been made, I think you have got it about right now.
I am wondering if you are able to help me with the Permission for the 'Hove Jesse' picture. I have been given permission by Annette Millar under the GNU Free Documentation Licence. My problem is that I do not know how to record this on the site. Please can you help or do it for me. Malcolmlow 11:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hi Malcolm!
I just fixed the little Hove Jesse Tree problem by uploading to wiki commons. It was a bit of stuffing about and it probably isn't quite as clear as the original, but at least it's there and wont be deleted. I haven't had time to get back here for the last couple of days as I've been collaborating on Leonardo da Vinci.
I've got several pages that you would probably be interested in, if you haven't already seen them. I reorganised Stained glass, so even though I maintained a lot of sections written by other people, the intro, the methods and so on, and all the little galleries have been done by me (It's hard to keep people from doing things like putting up 8 pictures of Tiffany, or listing their own nasty leadlight studio) which is really problematic because the article is horrendously over the limit.
Also Stained glass - British glass, 1811-1918, Poor Man's Bible, Leadlight, and Cathedral architecture of Western Europe. Some of them get vandalise all the time. Leonardo was vandalised 17 times in an hour by 4 different kids, mainly just writing things like "he ate monkeys".
Anyway- Jesse Trees, could you pleease write up the details of the Hove window? And put up some more info about a few examples that you consider outstanding in the different categories. If the format isn't standard, I'll get back to it sometime.... but I'm about to head over to your side of the planet for a few weeks, I'll bring a laptop, but I mightn't have internet access very often!
If you want to make sure I get a message, put it on my talk page, and I'll get an alert.
Bye for now! --Amandajm 13:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello Amanda, thank you for your help, I hope you have an enjoyable visit. I will try to add additional material as you suggest, and look forward to hearing from you again. If you are interested and would like a copy of my Tree of Jesse Directory I will be happy to send a copy of the A4 booklet to you, or a PDF. If you would like a PDF it will take a long time to email to you. I will need an address etc if you are interested. I don't know how private you wish to be about addresses etc: My best regards and I pray for a safe journey for you, Malcolm Low.Malcolmlow 13:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)86.15.50.229 13:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hi Malcolm!
Message received! oh, boy! what a day! Spent hours trying to get one simple fact out of British Immigration.... about fifteen phonecalls, every one of them multiple-choice recordings. When I finally got a nice young man on the phone I was ready to blow my stack! I'm doin a bit of wiki for relaxation.
I would love to have a look at your data base. Don't send me anything for a bit. I'll be in the UK for about a month. I'm going to have to clear a whole lot of files off this computer before I go because I would prefer it didn't die while I'm away. Ill have to leave it available for my house sitters.
Are you familiar with the Buckinghamshire Stained Glass website? Such lovely enthusiastic people!
What got you particularly interested in the Tree of Jesse? I'm just racking my brains... I can't think of a Jesse Tree in Australia. But I think St Pat's, Melbourne has an Ancestors of Christ. I need to write that one up as well, and link it to Tree of Jesse, Sistine Chapel ceiling and other relevant connections. Thanks for your prayers and good wishes
--Amandajm 14:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello Amanda, a quick reply while you are reccuperating!! Yes I do know of the Buckinghamshire site and it has been useful to confirm some of my research. What got me started was 2 strangers who came into St Leonards Church, Leverington and pointed out to me the 15th century Jesse window, which as Church Warden I should have known about. But I didn't and neither did anyone else, most people thought it was named after a women called Jessie. I wrote a booklet about the window and the church afterward, and I had letters asking me if I know that so-and-so church has aJesse window and this got me started. I think the iconography had been lost to so many people that I have tried to enthuse others. I am not a historian, this project and others have helped me through a physical disablity for which I had to retire early from work. It is lovely to be able to communicate with someone like you who is able to assist me. My regards Malcolmlow 15:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] All fixed
A bit of help!
- firstly, if you begin a line with a space
it puts the writing in a box...
which is not usually what you want!
- Secondly, how to do references.
- At the foot of the page, you make a section heading called References, and you copy and past the 3 lines of template that I have pasted into the reference section on the site.
- After that, you never enter the references in between the template lines. You always put them into the text of the article and then they get numbered and listed automatically.
- Underneath the template, you can list extra books etc.
- For in-line referencing of a book, article or making a note, type the following:- leftarrow < (then type "ref", without the quotes) rightarrow > (then the reference, putting the author's name in bold, the book, journal or website in Italics, then the publisher, then the ISBN if known) leftarrow < slash / ("ref" again) rightarrow >
- In other words, the arrows make brackets to the word "ref". When you close the "ref, you also insert a "/" to signal that it is the end of that reference
- If you go to the website and look in "edit" you can see how your references have been achieved. I've used a slightly more complicated procedure for some of mine.
- For ISBNs, the preferred here formula is to separate the numbers by spaces, so you write ISBN 0-678-12345-6 etc
Hope that this helps!
--Amandajm 13:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hi Malcolm!
Just popped over to look and what did I see? Johnbod has added a section on manuscripts, plus a beautiful pic, which I have just reduced to the same size as the others (won't make me popular).
The problem is that the table of contents had grown and grown, so I've reformatted in order to avoid that. The problem is, that you now have to double check and put in an extra line to make sure the heading and text doesn't run together, because the subheadings are just in Bold so that they don't all register in the TOC.
Since we have a new section on Manuscripts, I made another new section for carvings, embroideries etc. Hope all this enthusiasm makes you overwhelmed with joy...
--Amandajm 13:15, 9 February 2007 (UTC) Hi Amanda
Thank you so much I was worried about the lose of info. Yes I am not only 'over joyed' I am very proud of the site, you have made such a difference to it. I have been telling my other friends who have helped me in my research over the years and my sons, they are really impressed. I must admit I do find it difficult to understand the mechanism and appreciate your help, no doubt I will continue to ask for help. As I said earlier if you would like a copy of my Directory you will be very welcome to one. I don't know how we can arrange this without exchanging addresses or emails privately. Malcolmlow 14:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
