Talk:Marcus Aurelius
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Someone needs to clear up the "following emperor" confusion for Marcus and Lucius Verus. According to the wiki, they followed each other in an endless cycle. ;) --Dante Alighieri 22:01 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)
Does anyone know wether Meditations is the same book as the Norwegian Til meg selv (English: To myself)? --Sigg3.net
Yes, it is. Andres
Thanks! Sigg3.net 12:18 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Quotes moved here from wrong emperor, to decide whether to go here or in Wikiquote:
"Everything—a horse, a vine—is created for some duty...For what task, then, were you yourself created?"
"A man's true delight is to do the things he was made for."
"How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it."
"If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself but to your own estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment."
"Live not as though there were a thousand years ahead of you. Fate is at your elbow; make yourself good while life and power are still yours."
Stan 19:34, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Why is Byzantine Emperors listed as a 'See also'? -- Ds13 21:09, 2004 Apr 12 (UTC)
- Well they were the continuation of the Roman emperors, but it is a little early for that I suppose. You could just remove it if you want. Adam Bishop 21:14, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)
[edit] dueling pictures
Actually, I thought the first picture was better - better angle, better color. Stan 20:47, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Not to worry - we have room for both. :-) I'm a bit uneasy about the lack of attribution though ("public domain assumed"?). -- ChrisO 23:31, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Furthermore, didn't Marcus Aurelius rule from 161-180? It seem rather unlikely that he could possibly have ruled from 96-180AD, seeing as that's much longer than he probably lived.-Paul
[edit] Reverted edit (Feb. 25, 138 rather than 139)
I don't know where this date comes from, neither the Feb. 25 nor the 138/139. But: the sources say Marcus was 18, which he could not have been on Feb. 25, 138 or 139. Pending proof of this date, then, since neither date appears to be possible, there doesn't seem to be any reason to make the change, so I've tentatively reverted it. — Bill 00:39, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] You Forgot To Include He wrote In Greek Not Latin
Perseus Project the "Memoirs of Marrcus Aurileus" written in Greek.
You will need to include that because that for the non militants it is a more significant contribution. He writes what he learned from the various peoples he met along his travels and gives an important insight to the man.
[edit] Trajan's Column
Isn't that a picture of Trajan's column rather than that of Marcus Aurelius?
- Nope, they got it right; it's the Column of Marcus Aurelius, on its square surrounded by buildings. Trajan's Column stands in an awkward site, between two churches, a staircase, what amounts to a highway (the Via dei Fori Imperiali), and the ruins of the Ulpian Basilica. Bill 8 July 2005 22:28 (UTC)
I see now that you are right. The column does look similar but the base is quite different - that of Trajan's column being much decorated. Gaius Cornelius 8 July 2005 22:38 (UTC)
[edit] Emperors names and confusing latin...
I'm a fond collector of quotes and as such, Marcus Aurelius shows up in my notebooks many times. Looking back though, I see that I've quoted several sources as naming him "Marcus Aelius Aurelius" while the main page here in Wiki names him "Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus", formerly "Marcus Annius Catilius Severus" at birth and "Marcus Annius Verus" at marriage. From what I gather from the Wiki page, Aelius was one..if not two other people? Was the source I quoted these sayings from in error in puting "Aelius" in the middle of Marcus' name? Or was this simply yet another variant of his more common name? I cant say I know much about how latin names in ancient Rome were made up or changed.... Thanks all .. Sidian Marius 00:06, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
This is bothering me: "Aurelius married another monkey named Faustina the Younger in 145. During their thirty-year marriage Faustina bore thirteen cute little monkeys, most notably, his monkey Commodus who would become Emperor and daughter Lucilla who was wed to Lucius Verus to solidify his alliance with Marcus Aurelius" Monkeys? thirteen cute little monkeys? There is also mention of a Chinese horse. Can someone rectify these errors? -Liz G
[edit] Sources
I wonder if the sources in this article could be improved? I noticed the phrase "he wanted no child left behind" and it seems like a bit of a projection of modern policies into aincient history. Could someone please cite source which would cover this? Mozzerati 18:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I took out the spurious mention of marcus persecuting Christians, which is only pure libel. There is no evidence he ever did such things, as the Roman Emperors page at the bottom points out. In fact, as the page at the bottom shows, ("christians-to-the-lions")Tertullian even called him a friend of the church. They were, however, associated with the unbridled fanaticism of Judaism and other eastern cults, which is why he includes one derogatory reference to them in his meditations.
"Severe persecution" of the early Christians... "Thousands(of Christians during the reign of Marcus Aurelius,) were beheaded or thown [sic] to wild beasts." seems wildly out of kilter with what he wrote down in the _Meditations_. Could there please be more solid proof of this? His reference to Christians in the Meditations via the George Long translation: "What a soul that is which is ready, if at any moment it must be separated from the body, and ready either to be extinguished or dispersed or continue to exist; but so that this readiness comes from a man's own judgement, not from mere obstinacy, as with the Christians, but considerately and with dignity and in a way to persuade another, without tragic show." He wouldn't it seems have martyred them out of anger, but perhaps rather for stubbornly refusing to comply with something seen as an obvious basic requirement for getting along with society of the time. In any case, could someone please provide more solid proof of unusually large killings of Christians happening under Marcus Aurelius’ watch? It seems so utterly detached from the principles he laid out in the Meditations. Multiple sound references for proof would be helpful that way.
[edit] Treasury registration of births
In fact it's not only the silliness (and evangelical Christian POV) about God's family, and the cutesy anti-Bush POV about children left behind — but the whole paragraph that is bad. It's not true: as in any well-regulated state, births were registered; with the treasury department (and the Temple of Juno Lucina, etc.), all the way back to Republican times. Bill 01:10, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Marcus Aurelius Bust Confusion
The photo of the bust at right appears at first glance to be labeled "Antoninus Pius" until one realizes this is not really the case, that "Antoninus Pius" refers to the lineage in the chart at right.
Is there a way to label the bust in the photo so that it reads Marcus Aurelius under it (when viewed in the context of the article)? This would avoid any possible confusion.
--Skb8721 15:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Poor spelling and Neologisms
Perhaps someone can clean up the poor spelling, there are also some funny neologisms such as 'In 177 a group of Christian was martyrized at Lyon', 'fear of rivialities' etc which will call for a restructured syntax
[edit] Persecution of Christians
The accussation that Marcus persecuted Christians needs more detail and sources. Such accussations are common but often ill-founded.MarcusAnniusCatiliusSeverus 23:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- I only read one book, that i used for this article. I am in favour of collectively organized research to support articles on Wikipedia. I got one footnote, if you have aditional footnotes and literature where that questions the persecution of christians during the administration of Marcus Aurelius, then we can have a debate about this issue.--Daanschr 14:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Mediations
The section on the Meditations makes no reference to the Stoic philosophy of Marcus Aurelius.MarcusAnniusCatiliusSeverus 23:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 5 Good Emperors
Is the succession box for this rather superfluous and simply unnecessarily taking up space since they followed the imperial succession? The article already says that M.A. was the last of the five. Cripipper 23:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Where was he born?
Can anyone put the specific city in which was he born? I only know the roman province was hispania.
[edit] Wondering
I was wondering if someone could direct towards the evidence which suggests that Marcus Aurelius is "extremely homosexual"(as per the introduction to the Wiki article). I myself have not seen any such suggestions prior to viewing the Wiki article, and my web search yielded no results. I did, however, find mention of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus(also known as Elagabalus) 204-222, who is well known for his debauchery as well as his homosexual tendancies. Any help shedding light on this subject would be much appreciated. Thanks—The preceding unsigned comment was added by MarcusAntoninus (talk • contribs) 16:02, 18 January 2007.
- That appears to have been vandalism. It has since been removed.Geuiwogbil 02:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Was Marcus Aurelius Really One of the Aurelii?
I've traced out several generations of the emperor Marcus Aurelius' ancestors, and I don't see any evidence for calling him one of the Aurelii. His name at birth was Marcus Annius Caitilius Serverus, and at marriage he took the name Marcus Annius Verus--i.e., nothing Aurelian in either of them. His father was named Marcus Annius Verus, as was his paternal grandfather, and his paternal great-grandfather before that. His mother Domitia was of the Lucillus family.
It looks to me like he included the name Aurelius in the name he took on as emperor purely as a way of honoring his predecessor, adoptive father, and uncle *by marriage only,* Antoninus Pius, who was clearly an Aurelian. (Antoninus Pius was born Titus Aurelius Fulvus, as were his father and grandfather before him.)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aurelii" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Unauthvu (talk • contribs) 22:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC).
